How many levels of administrative division should an interstellar nation have?

[CheertheSecond]

Serious world-building question here. No AI please that defeats the point of a discussion post and I genuinely don't need that.

If you are some sovereign ruler of an interstellar nation, how many levels of administrative units would be good to reduce red tape and lube the flow of paperwork?

Administrative units example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_administrative_divisions_by_country

On earth, most countries have 3 levels (states, cities and sub-city?).

What about an interstellar country?

I will put an example country so it is easier to discuss.

So Country Z has:

+1 capital planet: with as much people and geographic complexity as Earth
+10 major planets: about 4-6 billion people and several thousand cities each
+34 minor planets: below 1 billion people each (please note that major or minor refers to the population count and not the planet physical size)
+62 space stations: about several hundred thousand to millions of people each.

Edit 1:
The 69th century is characterised by dark, damn and degeneracy. New faiths surrounding what once condemned as heresy and demonic now held sway over vast pockets of human space. Multiple human nations arose bearing their dominion of intergalactic vastness. Each worshipped a demon or a set of demons. A few retained their faith in the old gods. Amidst the chaos of embroiling ploys and conflicts for supremacy and expansion, cosmic phenomena like inter-dimensional portals and drifts threw otherworldly beasts and mystical civilisations into the mix that is the future.


For government type, I want to set up several monarchies and federations like in current earth. For the sake of the example nation in the first post, I will say united kingdoms where there are 3 kingdoms with kings taking turn to rule after a set of years.

Edit 2:
Highest criteria: Information flow.

They want all the paperwork to be responsive and efficient as much as possible.

Total distance of the territory: At most 1 week of delay between regions furthest to another.

The mentioned Government consolidates their control almost evenly across its territory.

Nobility and Government are two separate entities. One is a group with wealth and negligible privilege and priority over non-legal stuffs. The other handles administration and governing of the nation. At the helm is a temp king from one of the 3 monarchs taking their turn to rule the united kingdom. Only in-territory offices have any legal power to affect the nation. Only the government has legal power and no other non-government organisation.

 

[Rezcore]

A feudal system augmented by a bureaucracy

 

[Emotica]

I mean, 3 is the number if you want to see it that way. A country has areas, and those areas have areas, but you know it doesn't end there. If you zoom all the way out, there would be galaxies, then star systems, then planets, then continents, then countries, then states, then cities, then districts, then subdistricts, and it's really up to you if you want the school boards and stuff to be involved. You really only need as many as are interesting.

I haven't written an interstellar story, but for Fantasy, I typically focus on countries and cities, with a world government or government coalitions at the top of the chain.

 

[Th3Breadnought]

First, what type of government you have in mind?

Absolute monarchy? Semi-constitutional monarchy? Non monarchy autocracy?

Do you want mustache twirling evil, banality of evil, believable, aspires to good?

 

[CheertheSecond]

First, what type of government you have in mind?

Absolute monarchy? Semi-constitutional monarchy? Non monarchy autocracy?

Do you want mustache twirling evil, banality of evil, believable, aspires to good?

The 69th century is characterised by dark, damn and degeneracy. New faiths surrounding what once condemned as heresy and demonic now held sway over vast pockets of human space. Multiple human nations arose bearing their dominion of intergalactic vastness. Each worshipped a demon or a set of demons. A few retained their faith in the old gods. Amidst the chaos of embroiling ploys and conflicts for supremacy and expansion, cosmic phenomena like inter-dimensional portals and drifts threw otherworldly beasts and mystical civilisations into the mix that is the future.


For government type, I want to set up several monarchies and federations like in current earth. For the sake of the example nation in the first post, I will say united kingdoms where there are 3 kingdoms with kings taking turn to rule after a set of years.

 

[Th3Breadnought]

The 69th century is characterised by dark, damn and degeneracy. New faiths surrounding what once condemned as heresy and demonic now held sway over vast pockets of human space. Multiple human nations arose bearing their dominion of intergalactic vastness. Each worshipped a demon or a set of demons. A few retained their faith in the old gods. Amidst the chaos of embroiling ploys and conflicts for supremacy and expansion, cosmic phenomena like inter-dimensional portals and drifts threw otherworldly beasts and mystical civilisations into the mix that is the future.


For government type, I want to set up several monarchies and federations like in current earth. For the sake of the example nation in the first post, I will say united kingdoms where there are 3 kingdoms with kings taking turn to rule after a set of years.

Word.

Beneath the Sovereign, you're gonna want something like a Vizier on the capital - a deputy administrator who can screen and handle what they can handle and know what needs the Sovereign's attention. Might work closely with a palace major majordomo or something.

Major planets are gonna want a Governor/Administrator/Duke or something that ultimately owe their positions to the Sovereign's pleasure (in theory, at least)

Minor Planets clustered into groups by proximity ruled by less influential Governors/Administrators/Marquis

Space Stations... some sort of Mayor or Baron, probably a part of the above regions by proximity. But more autonomy on their internal hierarchy maybe

On colonies, filter down to 3 to 5 regional and municipal layers. Maybe mayors, lesser noble titles or corporate titles.

Any of that land? Too specific, not specific enough?

 

[MFontana]

Serious world-building question here. No AI please that defeats the point of a discussion post and I genuinely don't need that.

If you are some sovereign ruler of an interstellar nation, how many levels of administrative units would be good to reduce red tape and lube the flow of paperwork?

On earth, most countries have 3 levels (states, cities and sub-city?).

What about an interstellar country?

I will put an example country so it is easier to discuss.

So Country Z has:

+1 capital planet: with as much people and geographic complexity as Earth
+10 major planets: about 4-6 billion people and several thousand cities each
+34 minor planets: below 1 billion people each (please note that major or minor refers to the population count and not the planet physical size)
+62 space stations: about several hundred thousand to millions of people each.

Personally, I referenced the Ancient Roman Empire for one of my own and designed a provincial-prefecture based imperial/feudal system.
However, the governmental structure of the civilization would also be influenced by its culture and the scale/scope of its territory.

From what you presented there, I'd break it down like so, with space-stations/satellite territories being the equivalent level of a province/prefecture.

Imperial Sovereign
Royal Family (Or equivalent)
Advisory Council / High-Council
Star-System Governor
Stellar-Council (Consists primarily of a representative from each world in a given star system)
Planetary Governor
Planetary Council (Consists of a representative of each major province)
Provincial/Prefectural Governor
Local Governor/Mayoral Representative

But if the civilization isn't utilizing a monarch/imperial structure, or the culture is incompatible with this kind of structure, then obviously it would have to be changed.

 

[N0xiety]

Honestly, you missed a crucial information, communication and travel time, ease of travel. It will affect what kind of system will have to be built to govern over everything, if even possible.

If communication and travel time takes too long, it might not even be possible to build a stable nation. Or the nation would have to be made up of essentially star system states, governing over everything within the star system. So, any space stations, planets, mining operations etc. inside the star system would be under this governance.

 

[Alski]

The 69th century is characterised by dark, damn and degeneracy. New faiths surrounding what once condemned as heresy and demonic now held sway over vast pockets of human space. Multiple human nations arose bearing their dominion of intergalactic vastness. Each worshipped a demon or a set of demons. A few retained their faith in the old gods. Amidst the chaos of embroiling ploys and conflicts for supremacy and expansion, cosmic phenomena like inter-dimensional portals and drifts threw otherworldly beasts and mystical civilisations into the mix that is the future.

Sounds like you should go and read some warhammer 40k about their power structures.

 

[Rezcore]

People assume galactic governance would be huge bureaucratic nightmares. When in reality the simplest and most likely to be used is... Galactic Empire from Star Wars. There is the Emperor, the Senate, then the galaxy would be split into administrative sectors, ruled by an appointed official to interface with the rulers of the planets within their system

 

[Arkus86]

An important factor to consider how quickly information travels between individual planets and stars, and to a lesser degree the speed of physical travel.
The longer it takes information from the edge of the interstellar nation to reach the capital, the more localized and autonomous administrative centres you will need, simply because you can't effectively govern somewhere if you can't respond in time to local situation.
Similarly, the longer it takes to move people and resources, the more you will need local garrisons and logistic centres. Even if you can send and receive information instantly, if it takes months or years for your physical response to get there, the less control and influence you have over local situation, and the more likely it is for the territory slip out of your control entirely.

Most likely, I imagine you would want the central government, sectors of multiple star systems, then the star systems themselves to each be a separate level of governance. Planetary/station governance as a fourth level would not be out of place for systems with more than one inhabited world or station.

 

[Bayleyrockstar]

So administrative levels are based on the type of governance, but not all governance is equal, even among monarchies. Even less so when you start getting into civilization tiers.

Any galactic civ with direct control over sub administrations requires two things. The ability to communicate with little delay. (Less than a minute) Over intergalactic distance, and enough processing power. (Matroshka brain) And this eliminates the need for multiple subdivisions of authority except to seperates executive and military.

Otherwise, you have to get into other forms of governance to control multiple planets. The most famous is the feudal model. Where each planet is ruled by a governor who is empowered with absolute authority over the planet.

The government over them only intervenes in extraordinary cases, or rebellion by a governor, and they usually keep their hold through military disparity


There's other forms that can take place, but each is dependant on how communication is achieved, and the form of governance. A federation will have different levels than an absolute God emperor monarchy.

 

[Eldoria]

Out of the question, but I haven't even considered a galactic government in a fantasy scenario. Something as simple as interstellar communication is nearly impossible. Radio waves take tens, even thousands of years to reach the nearest star. It doesn't make sense scientifically, at least not yet. Not to mention our biological lifespan, galactic government is a utopia. The only method I can think of is communicating using quantum entanglement, but even that's just a theory. My wild imagination can't even fathom how a galactic government could exist. So, this question isn't even relevant to my little mind.

 

[seavmun88]

How much bureaucracy do you actually want to write about? Could be 50 levels of red tape and paperwork before you even consider single planets as entities, could be Space Emperor -> His Inner Circle -> Everybody else do your own thing as long as you meet tax quotas.

 

[CheertheSecond]

Sounds like you should go and read some warhammer 40k about their power structures.

Warhammer 40k is characterised with redundancy and I am in the spirit of the other end of the spectrum.

How much bureaucracy do you actually want to write about? Could be 50 levels of red tape and paperwork before you even consider single planets as entities, could be Space Emperor -> His Inner Circle -> Everybody else do your own thing as long as you meet tax quotas.

I generally want to keep it simple so things can flow.

Currently I think of only 3 administrative divisions: System > Planet > City.

Honestly, you missed a crucial information, communication and travel time, ease of travel. It will affect what kind of system will have to be built to govern over everything, if even possible.

If communication and travel time takes too long, it might not even be possible to build a stable nation. Or the nation would have to be made up of essentially star system states, governing over everything within the star system. So, any space stations, planets, mining operations etc. inside the star system would be under this governance.

so ftl bullshitery goes?

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Whatever the author feels comfortable with. I kind of liked the model Christopher Stasheff built for Escape Velocity and the Warlock books (The Warlock in Spite of Himself, The Warlock Unlocked, King Kobold Revived, et. al.). Essentially you have a central government with agents on every inhabited planet in known space. On some planets, the agents are openly connected to the government, otherwise, they are like Rodney Gallowglass/Rod D'Argent (the eponymous warlock... eventually) - observers who may wind up involved at any level(s) of society.
There is a "monastic order" that maintains technological contact between worlds, somewhat, but the real secret are network of telepaths able to mentally link the leaders of member worlds to each other instantly.
Other than these agents (who may or may not play an active role in governance), who often but not always ARE the telepaths, each world has its own system that it either develops organically or has imposed upon it by conquest, depending on how much trouble the leaders caused to the galaxy as a whole.

So the organization was: "Region of Settled Space (led by an elected council) > Planetary system (pretty much run by the agents, mostly trying to stay out of the way of the people above and below them) > Individual planet (which may have a single world-wide government or several smaller ones, and may or may not have an "oversight" group like, at least in theory, The United Nations) > Possibly further divisions depending on the nature, size, and tech level of the planet (Gramarye, the planet of the Warlock books, has a society based of feudal Europe, with kings, barons, etc. due to the original settlers all being members of the Society For Creative Anachronism trying to escape the "modern world" of the late 21st Century, and being dragged into the early 22nd century in the books - the galactic government initially sends its Agent to identify potential leaders to join the larger society, but he winds getting so entwined in local politics, his children become the best candidates...)

 

[Arkus86]

so ftl bullshitery goes?

FTL bullshittery is the only way to build a stable interstellar nation. Without FTL, a single solar system is the limit.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

FTL bullshittery is the only way to build a stable interstellar nation. Without FTL, a single solar system is the limit.

Unless you have powerful psykers/espers/psionicists (i.e. "mental bull****tery") or gates (time-space wankery) of some sort.

And then, of course, you can have it ALL, bull****ery-wise, by following the television example of the Stargate franchise (the Stargates allow travel between worlds at ANY distance in about ten minutes, regardless of other concerns ... but there are also FTL-capable and sublight starcraft ... some of them equipped with their own Stargates as well...) or the manga/audionovel My Vampire System that has gates between worlds and FTL ships and other wankery as well.

 

[N0xiety]

so ftl bullshitery goes?

Even with ftl bullshitery, you have to take it quite seriously. Because how bs is it? Like, you might say a travel that would take 1000 light years is reduced to 10 years, or 1 year, or 1 month, or 1 day etc. It doesn't have to be an exact number as there could be more advanced and expensive iterations of the same technology, like how different brands of cars can reach different maximum speeds, or how a semi made to carry cargo can't be as fast as a sports car, but it would still have a close range in between. Like, you can't just have one space ship doing 100 times the speed of light with its FTL tech, while another does 1 million times the speed of light. That would be an insane technology gap within the same governing body. Or for traveling really far distances there could be specialized warp gates, which makes the travel destination rigid in exchange for speed.

Anyways, travel time/method will affect every aspect of your world building. It will determine how conflicts happen and wars are fought. How trade works, how feasible it is for regular people to move from planet to planet, how the ruling system works. You also need to put logical limitations on the FLT tech so it doesn't just turn into a kill all method or negate space fleet battles etc. Like, how do you prevent someone from just bypassing all your star system defenses with FTL tech? How do you prevent someone from just ramming the planet at relativistic speeds?

A popular way is to make it so that FTL tech doesn't do well within strong gravitational wells, so getting too close to a star with FTL becomes dangerous as you risk getting torn apart by the conflicting forces the closer you are. So the FTL tech can be really fast to travel in between stars, but might force the user to travel in real space using thrusters when entering the star system etc. Which makes space battles, planetary defense, customs etc. feasible. You gotta think all of these seriously.

 

[corruption]

As many levels as the author wants it to have.
You might have the Emperor as a mere figurehead while the Council rules the Empire, and they are all warlords who only work together because there are dangers out there, they need to unite against. Without a figurehead (who they know/believe is a figurehead) they would fight each other for leadership.
You might have sectors in the nation being other nations they absorbed.
Whatever you want.
.
Heck, you could have multiple systems working all at once adding multiple different levels.
EXAMPLE:
Local administration subsection
Local religious subsection
Local trade organization subsection