What separates a bad written villain to a good written villain

[Pixytokisaki14]

I bite you.

*Plays uno reverse*
No i bite u

 

[Deleted member 84247]

*Plays uno reverse*
No i bite u

*Grumbles and throws a chalice at your head*

 

[Pixytokisaki14]

*Grumbles and throws a chalice at your head*

*thonk*

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Well either way he is likeable. Most villains are likeable even without a sob story. I feel like King Joffrey's are a rarity, and that's why he is the only one coming to mind.

True. But I have a theory of why it can happen. Apart from being evil for the sake of evil, the second thing villains have to do is to commit evil towards very likeable characters. I would argue Batman wasn't as likeable, while Tyrion, Eddard, and so on are more likeable.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

True. But I have a theory of why it can happen. Apart from being evil for the sake of evil, the second thing villains have to do is to commit evil towards very likeable characters. I would argue Batman wasn't as likeable, while Tyrion, Eddard, and so on are more likeable.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Huh?

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Huh?

?️

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

A well done villain needs to stand for something, something provoking and evil. A poorly written one doesn't really do that well or is boring.

 

[Pixytokisaki14]

?️

*Chwomp*

 

[NotaNuffian]

A well done villain needs to stand for something, something provoking and evil. A poorly written one doesn't really do that well or is boring.

So is Griffith well done or raw? Because the only thing he stands for is himself.

And yet because he is pretty, he gets fans yapping "Griffith did no wrong".

I mean, if Henry Cavill decides to try Nazism, I might be shocked but my shallowness will help make excuses for him.

See Ted Bundy.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

So is Griffith well done or raw? Because the only thing he stands for is himself.

And yet because he is pretty, he gets fans yapping "Griffith did no wrong".

I mean, if Henry Cavill decides to try Nazism, I might be shocked but my shallowness will help make excuses for him.

See Ted Bundy.

Selfishness is a classic villain desire. And a pleasant appearance or beauty can make everything better/appealing.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Selfishness is a classic villain desire. And a pleasant appearance or beauty can make everything better/appealing.

Endeed.

Ps. can't find pics of Endeed meme.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Endeed.

Ps. can't find pics of Endeed meme.

 

[Pixytokisaki14]

Endeed.

Ps. can't find pics of Endeed meme.

@RepresentingEnvy it's go time

 

[Deleted member 84247]

@RepresentingEnvy it's go time

 

[DubstheDuke]

So, my opinion on this particular question has changed a bit over time.

A couple years ago, I would have answered like this: A good villain is one who isn't just "Evil to be evil". And even today, I still hold this sentiment - to an extent.

Here is my new opinion, which is similar but slightly modified: A good villain is a good character, who just so happens to be a villain.

Now, this begs the question - what makes a good character? The answer is simple - the character doesn't just exist as a plot device.

As mentioned above, this character is someone who just so happens to be a villain. It isn't their role or destiny to be a villain, but rather, that the events which have taken place happen to have put this person in the position of the villain. This is critical to writing of any character, because writing cannot be forced - it needs to happen naturally.

I often plan out my stories. There is an entire conversation on whether it's better to plan or not to plan. But it is extremely important, even as someone who plans everything out, to be able to go with the flow - and if something just seems to fit even though it goes against plan, then go with it.

A good character is someone who is well defined, who you can imagine in real life. How they would react to certain situations. How they would interact with certain people, or to certain topics of conversation. If you have a hard time thinking about how your character would act in any given situation, then the character isn't well defined enough, and probably needs a bit more exploration.

Now, let's talk a bit about characters who are used solely for plot devices - aka, mobs. There are a lot of mob villains who are the product of an author trying to shove down your throat "This is a villain. Hate him. He is evil." Now, there are certain ways to make these characters work. As I said above, if a character is just wicked for the sake of being wicked, but that is a natural part of their character that seems plausible and unforced, then it's an exceptional job at writing. The difficulty is making a character like this and having it not feel forced, which takes a very experienced writer.

But for the most part, if a character only exists to play a certain role, to perform a certain action, to take part in a particular scene - then they aren't very well written. If, on the other hand, that certain action they take is in accordance with their personality and how they would react to the situation - then this is exactly what we're looking for. It's not necessarily about making people act as expected, but about revealing who they are to the audience through their actions.

In other words, depending on your skill level in writing, there are easier and harder ways to make good characters. But here is one guiding principal to any character writing. What is their hierarchy of priorities?

Who or what do they love more than anything else? If two people were going to die and they could only save one, who would they save? What would they give their own life for - and what would it take for that to happen?

I like to always imagine my characters in these extreme scenarios to really explore them and find out where their priorities lie, and just how far they would go to protect their loved ones and/or achieve their goals. Often a villain is someone who will simply go to further lengths to achieve such things, or even to protect certain people. But whether the character is likable or not depends on exactly what they prioritize above all. So there can be likable villains, or unlikable heroes.

If a character can make you feel a lot of emotion, whether positive or negative, they are probably a good character. Unless they are so badly written that those emotions are towards the author, rather than the character itself.

 

[Nolff]

This question came to my mind after watching the latest episode of Date A Live where in, spoilers

Spoiler: Spoilers for the Anime

The antagonist is an all powerful spirit known as Mio Takamiya, her goal is to kill off the main cast, gaining their power and erasing the memories of the main character. Why? It's because the person she fell in love with died and the only way to revive him is to basically give birth to him, thats our main character Shido. Now the he is at the right age, Mio has come to take whats hers and bring back the love of her life.

Same with another Villain who has similar parallels to Mio Takamiya, named, Otto Apocalypse from Honkai Impact 3rd. Another beautifully written villain with the same goal of reviving his loved one by any means necessary.

Then I took a look at the TV drama villains and noticed that they're pretty stale. Like they don't have any reason to act villainous other than pride, envy or just being a bad person. They constantly remind you that "Hey, this is the bad guy. Hate this guy" by making said villain do bad things 24/7 everyday and being just an unlikeable prick.

So this constitutes the question, What's the difference between a badly written villain and a good written villain? I like to see what everyone's opinion on this is.

My opinion, is depth. When writing a Villain, make his/her's reason to doing the terrible things, a rational one. Give them more emotion than just being villainous 24/7 like focusing on their relationships to other characters as well as giving them screentime to make the readers understand how much of a threat he/her is in a story and expose the human part of them. After all, in some stories, the villain is just a regular person who is subject to regular emotions and regular existence. So humanize them to make them not annoying, which causes readers to skip chapters, but also make readers enjoy when they're represented in a chapter. By doing these things, the readers start to care and understand the intensions of the Villain making them feel conflicted, this could lead to satisfying endings where both the hero and the villain would get what they want, but only the villain would find out too late that achieving their goals has an enormous price to pay.

So now it's your turn. What separates a good written villain to a badly written one? What are the types of tropes you want to see in your ideal Villain? And How do you propose writing a good villain? I really wanna see all your answers down below!

Let me introduce you to the supreme lords:

I don't have any bad villain examples tho.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

This great witch wouldn't know?

 

[melchi]

I think a lot of the things that make a compelling character also apply to an antagonist.

What are their goals?
What are their motivations?
Do they act like a real person?
Can you empathize with them?

Bonus:
Can they make the hero look like the actual villain?
A good villain makes it hard to see things in black in white IMO.

They can have a really skewed way of seeing things, but coming up with that is half the fun as a writer. I forget whoever said it but a hero can only be as good as the villain. A story with a cheap villain will always have a cheap hero.

 

[Bartun]

So, my opinion on this particular question has changed a bit over time.

A couple years ago, I would have answered like this: A good villain is one who isn't just "Evil to be evil". And even today, I still hold this sentiment - to an extent.

Here is my new opinion, which is similar but slightly modified: A good villain is a good character, who just so happens to be a villain.

Now, this begs the question - what makes a good character? The answer is simple - the character doesn't just exist as a plot device.

As mentioned above, this character is someone who just so happens to be a villain. It isn't their role or destiny to be a villain, but rather, that the events which have taken place happen to have put this person in the position of the villain. This is critical to writing of any character, because writing cannot be forced - it needs to happen naturally.

I often plan out my stories. There is an entire conversation on whether it's better to plan or not to plan. But it is extremely important, even as someone who plans everything out, to be able to go with the flow - and if something just seems to fit even though it goes against plan, then go with it.

A good character is someone who is well defined, who you can imagine in real life. How they would react to certain situations. How they would interact with certain people, or to certain topics of conversation. If you have a hard time thinking about how your character would act in any given situation, then the character isn't well defined enough, and probably needs a bit more exploration.

Now, let's talk a bit about characters who are used solely for plot devices - aka, mobs. There are a lot of mob villains who are the product of an author trying to shove down your throat "This is a villain. Hate him. He is evil." Now, there are certain ways to make these characters work. As I said above, if a character is just wicked for the sake of being wicked, but that is a natural part of their character that seems plausible and unforced, then it's an exceptional job at writing. The difficulty is making a character like this and having it not feel forced, which takes a very experienced writer.

But for the most part, if a character only exists to play a certain role, to perform a certain action, to take part in a particular scene - then they aren't very well written. If, on the other hand, that certain action they take is in accordance with their personality and how they would react to the situation - then this is exactly what we're looking for. It's not necessarily about making people act as expected, but about revealing who they are to the audience through their actions.

In other words, depending on your skill level in writing, there are easier and harder ways to make good characters. But here is one guiding principal to any character writing. What is their hierarchy of priorities?

Who or what do they love more than anything else? If two people were going to die and they could only save one, who would they save? What would they give their own life for - and what would it take for that to happen?

I like to always imagine my characters in these extreme scenarios to really explore them and find out where their priorities lie, and just how far they would go to protect their loved ones and/or achieve their goals. Often a villain is someone who will simply go to further lengths to achieve such things, or even to protect certain people. But whether the character is likable or not depends on exactly what they prioritize above all. So there can be likable villains, or unlikable heroes.

If a character can make you feel a lot of emotion, whether positive or negative, they are probably a good character. Unless they are so badly written that those emotions are towards the author, rather than the character itself.

I concur.
King Jeoffrey from GOT is a great example, he's a fantastic character but an appalling villain, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. He's evil for the sake of being evil since he didn't have a 'rough childhood' or anything to justify being wicked, and selfish, and he doesn't really have a goal other than to make people miserable. He's always reined by a greater power like his mother and grandfather, and every time he wields power by himself it always brings chaos, ruining his family's schemes.

To have a good villain you need to have a good 'hero'. Jeoffrey works because he's unpredictable. He's an agent of chaos in a world where everyone around him is a scheming bastard, even the 'heroes' seek power. A good villain has to be complimented by a good hero. You can write the most epic villain of all time but it'll never stand out if he's going against Doogley Do-Good. Even if the villain is the protagonist, there has to be someone standing against him or at the very least in competition with him.

But I'm just a dinosaur and that's just my humble opinion.