Why do I feel like the more descriptive the story, the harder it is to visualize?

BlackKnightX

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Threads saying how great "show, don't tell" is on SHF? As far as I know, zero.
Well, duh, this is a web novel community. I’m referring to people from creative writing community—those who frequent workshops and seminars and try to make it in the traditional publishing market.

I think I already drew a clear line between traditional novel and web novel, so why are you still talking about SHF?
Look at our conversation about NEET.
There’s nothing redundant about that. You might think it is since you don’t really enjoy it, but I do. I enjoy those constant worshiping mc and repetitive praises.

It’s only gonna become redundant once you don’t care about it. (Like what I just said above: showing everything and adding too much details are boring and redundant.)

Bringing that conversation here is pointless. It’s irrelevant.
 
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RepresentingWrath

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There’s nothing redundant about that. You might think it is since you don’t really enjoy it, but I do. I enjoy those constant worshiping mc and repetitive praises.

It’s only gonna become redundant once you don’t care about it. (Like what I just said above: showing everything and adding too much details are boring and redundant.)

Bringing that conversation here is pointless. It’s irrelevant.
I disagree with your opinions, so it's funny to see how you say that something redundant is needed while something that actually adds to the story is a waste.
 

MyukiMruieast

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The main reason why I like web novels more than books in paper. Dorothy makes me feel like I'm british, the emerald kingdom just feels to brazen. Princes with his identity swapped with a commoner makes me feel like I'm another british. Web novels make me feel like I'm me.
 

BlackKnightX

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I disagree with your opinions, so it's funny to see how you say that something redundant is needed while something that actually adds to the story is a waste.
I‘m in the complete opposite. What you think is redundant, I think it actually adds to the story. What you think is needed, I think it’s a total waste.
The main reason why I like web novels more than books in paper. Dorothy makes me feel like I'm british, the emerald kingdom just feels to brazen. Princes with his identity swapped with a commoner makes me feel like I'm another british. Web novels make me feel like I'm me.
Which one, though, the otaku, the gamer, or the revenger~? ?
 

AliceShiki

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I can enjoy well-described scenes that go into detail over the character's emotions, gestures and stuff.

I hate physical descriptions, descriptions of places and things like it. I'll just forget this in 30s, why are you bothering with spending anything more than a paragraph describing a character's appearance? I won't remember them...
 

ThrillingHuman

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When someone goes in-depth about a revelant physical detail that has some sort of emotional weight to it, e.g when a gruesome scene is described with a semi-medical precision and thoroughness?
I stan that.
When someone goes in-depth about a possibly but not necessarily revelant to the plot detail with little to no emotional context, e.g describing the physical appearance of a new character?
I usually skim that or skip that.
It's really that simple.
 
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But the original meaning of “show, don’t tell”
Used for plays from there, on to movies. To give audience information visually rather than with words, Why? because it as more efficient it is more tacit. It is not meant to be used for novel. as its original form. BUT as a way to identify how you can convey information efficiently is still a useful tool.

why can’t you just directly tell the readers that it is night and the moon is shining?
You can, you know why? Its a "tool", not a "rule". As people have said over and over. The value of “show, don’t tell” it weight heavier in plays, but not more so in novels.

sacred gospel
And so far, the only people I have talked to that say “show, don’t tell” to use for novels is something glorified are people that want to argue against it by saying it is "Sacred Gospel" but is wrong, like it is some kind of great hill to die on.

It is like someone going to a ice-cream bar sees a banana split and yells out, "Fucking bananas, I fucking hate bananas, let me tell you how ice-cream should not have bananas, its a fruit".

"Dude Just don't order the banana split, you don't have to have bananas, its an ice-cream store, just eat ice-cream"

"You heard of banana smoothies, it says that it HAS to have bananas, its a RULE! Fucking fruit and dairy, it's wrong man!"

"I don't care, dude, it's an ice cream store, if a banana smoothie doesn't have bananas its... it s not a fucking banana smoothie, dude we are talking about ice cream, What the fuck? Smoothies need to add a flavor to it, its a important to add a flavor but still its not a quote/unquote, a rule."

"I want to talk to the manager! Goddam, why do they have a rule of putting fruit in my ice cream!"

"its not a rule! Just get a cone, or a cup with a single scoop!"



^ example of "show, don't tell" to explain via "indirectness" as you call it
 
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BlackKnightX

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I can enjoy well-described scenes that go into detail over the character's emotions, gestures and stuff.

I hate physical descriptions, descriptions of places and things like it. I'll just forget this in 30s, why are you bothering with spending anything more than a paragraph describing a character's appearance? I won't remember them...
Agreed. Describing physical details is important to paint the picture, of course, but when you indulge in it too much, it’s just gonna get in the way of the story.
 
D

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When you spend reading five paragraphs about a description of a castle. Like, come on, I know what a castle is. ?
At that point you just come full circle to the telling part lol. Cause you're just telling the audience and droning on and on about a castles appearance like they have boobs or something. Too much showing becomes a telling in a way.
 

BlackKnightX

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When someone goes in-depth about a revelant physical detail that has some sort of emotional weight to it, e.g when a gruesome scene is described with a semi-medical precision and thoroughness?
I stan that.
When someone goes in-depth about a possibly but not necessarily revelant to the plot detail with little to no emotional context, e.g describing the physical appearance of a new character?
I usually skim that or skip that.
It's really that simple.
Yep. I heard this writing advice from somewhere before—“Don’t write something the readers tend to skip”. Put it simply, if the readers don’t care, then don’t add it. If you still want to add it, then make them care. Simple as that.
Used for plays from there, on to movies. To give audience information visually rather than with words, Why? because it as more efficient it is more tacit. It is not meant to be used for novel. as its original form. BUT as a way to identify how you can convey information efferently is still a useful tool.
Yep, completely agreed. I think the word “show, don’t tell” itself is confusing. In novel writing, the more appropriate word would be “Write scene, not summary”.

When you write scene, you make the readers experience the events along with the characters. The readers get to see, hear, smell, taste, and feel things. It immerses the readers in the story.

When you summarize events, there’s no immersion going on—though, you can still immerse yourself if you have a vivid and lively imagination. You can just read a list of event, and then start daydreaming about it. It’s fun, nonetheless.
I love descriptions when it comes to people. Dont just tell me he is attractive or she is beautiful. Fucking paint me a picture
No need to go that far, mate. Just fucking say, “Her skin is as beautiful as jade,” and you’re ready to go!
 
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D

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“show, don’t tell” itself is confusing
Yep, but that is true for most of the "axiom" in writing and screen writing. most of the time the name of it is just a short-hand for something more complicated.

  • "write what you know" (??? but I am not a doctor, but I am writing ER) answer: Learn how to "know something"
  • "enter late, leave early" (??? WUT?) answer: its about handling boring things we call "travelling"
  • "Keep it simple stupid" (??? but its a complicated story with lots of plot twist) answer: not about making a simple story.
  • "Don't kill the cat" (What CAT?) answer: Manipulate audience emotion investment
  • "Show, don't tell" (Need I say more?)
  • "Rule of three" (???) answer: Patterns of expectations
  • "Wants and Needs" (???) answer: how to write character psychology
  • "Economy of minutes" (But?!?) answer: Don't waste audience's time/attention span
  • "power of absence and incomplete actions" (???) answer: Fuck I dun remember *shoot self in head*
  • "7 min hooks" (Huh?) answer: what is a good opener?
  • "Writing is rewriting" (So... try again?) answer: always do more drafts, experiment, cut scenes add scenes change original stories.

Are the answers I wrote the full answer? No, I am lazy
Do I fully understand all screenwriting axioms? No
Are they rules? No
If they are not rules do people go around telling people they are rules? Yes
One of them is actually call the "rule of three", you are tell me that it still not a rule? Yes, and I quote.

itself is confusing
Yes. yes it is.

It works 100% of the time when it works. And the only time when it doesn't work, is when it doesn't work
Stupid inaccessible writers' tool box bullshit.
 
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One of them is actually call the "rule of three", you are tell me that it still not a rule? Yes,

:blobrofl: :blobrofl: :blobrofl: There is only one rule in writing... there are no rules... except for grammar, having good grammar that's a good rule to have.
 
D

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except for grammar, having good grammar that's a good rule to have.
Not always.

Gump and Co. by Winston Groom, 1995
The text purposely contains grammar and spelling mistakes in order to indicate the character's deficient education and cognitive difficulties, albeit less frequently than its predecessor, reflecting that Forrest is a more mature and somewhat more astute man
 

AliceShiki

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because you read poorly written descriptions that fail to paint vivid image before your eyes
Not necessarily? I mean... I just can't pay much attention to physical descriptions, they kinda fly over my head and get forgotten in 5-30s. It doesn't matter how well-written it is, if I'm not caring about it in the slightest.

I like descriptions of feelings and emotions, but... Appearance? Or description of a location? Now that's just mindnumblingly boring.
 

SakeVision

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Not necessarily? I mean... I just can't pay much attention to physical descriptions, they kinda fly over my head and get forgotten in 5-30s. It doesn't matter how well-written it is, if I'm not caring about it in the slightest.

I like descriptions of feelings and emotions, but... Appearance? Or description of a location? Now that's just mindnumblingly boring.

that's the thing. descriptions should evoke emotions. that's what makes them memorable. that's why Chinese novels use metaphors like jade beauty or skin as pale as moonlight.
 

BlackKnightX

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because you read poorly written descriptions that fail to paint vivid image before your eyes
Yeah. I love impression rather than physical description. Like you said up there, jade beauty is a good one. It makes me think of a very beautiful girl with green skin, which is very good, indeed~ Lol
 

Alfir

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Sometimes... Compare JP webnovel to a printed lightnovel. You will see the difference. In LNs where it is more descriptive, you can feel words flow smoothly, and some prose really leaves you a good impression. It has that artistic sense. In WNs, you can feel the pacing of the story to be faster given the less descriptive prose and more of the dialogue and progression of the story.

Some WNs also use descriptive styles which either impresses us or fail us, Trafford's trading Club and LOTM have nice descriptive prose. Chrysalis and Ending Maker have nice dialogue exchanges. Their are times, the description is offensive, or the dialogue becoming awkward. I believe this is normal, so yeah, sometimes it's hard to visualize stories with descriptive writing, and sometimes not.

In my humble opinion, it is the infodumps that makes it hard for the readers to visualize the story.
 
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