What is your opinion on Overlord by Maruyama Kugane (LN/anime)

[RepresentingWrath]

How are lizard babies made? @RepresentingEnvy

SEggs without "S".

 

[Deleted member 84247]

How are lizard babies made? @RepresentingEnvy

I'll explain it to you when you're older.

 

[forli]

It starts off with a somewhat interesting premise: the protagonist has to pretend to be an evil overlord despite being just a normal guy. So we see him trying to convince his followers to save some village here or some other people there, while making it sound like he really is evil and this is all part of his villainous plan.

The execution is honestly not all that great, but the story did have something going on... And then in the second season the MC becomes actually evil out of nowhere and everything goes to shit.

Seeing people talk about this MC always makes me wonder if I watched the wrong show. Some people say that this is a story about an evil overlord... but that was clearly not the premise at the beginning; he didn't start evil. Some people say that he was corrupted and fell into evil... But there's no fall into evil, the guy went directly from going out of his way to avoid hurting innocent people to committing genocide against some lizards, and the ONLY explanation we get for any of it is that he's a skeleton and skeletons are evil, so I guess his skeletoness only kicked in in season 2? It's seriously one of the most jarring character shifts I've ever seen.

And the worst part is that the original premise is now gone, the MC is no longer a normal dude pretending to be a villain, he IS a villain. The show keeps pretending that there are some comedic misunderstandings going on, but his evil is not fake, and neither is his power, so where is the misunderstanding?

So now this is a story about the MC being an asshole and nobody being able to do anything about it, there's literally nothing interesting going on to the point I don't think it even qualifies as a story anymore... Actually, I'd say that it's half of a story, the half where we see the villains do evil crap to make it more satisfying when the heroes kick their shit in latter. But the second half never comes, there are no heroes that can give them their just desserts, so to sum up, it's nothing but constant narrative blue balls. (I actually dropped it because I don't like torturing myself, didn't finish season 2, and only saw a few clips of 3, but from what I've heard, the cycle of introducing likable characters only to have them die horribly and pointlessly gets very repetitive.)

Also, I don't get why people praise the world building; felt very generic to me.

 

[Valmond]

There are many interesting things to like in the story, but some of the tropes do get tired after a while. I would have liked to see a different path after the first arc. The whole lizard sex arc, I wasn't vibing with that.

Sus you brought that up.

 

[Deleted member 206441]

i read the LN
The first few volumes were great, but stop when I feel the major mystery of the plot wasn't really advancing.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Sus you brought that up.

Sus you quoted me bringing that up. What about it?

 

[Navillus]

I found it quite exquisite-nyah~

 

[istryj]

Overlord is an awkward blend of grimdark and situation comedy. The combination is strange and poorly executed.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

I watched the anime and thought it was decent for a power fantasy isekai. I hear the LN is way better but haven't read it myself.

 

[Fairemont]

Its pretty good for a powerful fantasy.

Ainz is a solid example of how to do a decently amusing OP protagonist.

He has essentially unmatched power but is otherwise grossly inept. He doesn't have the actual experience to back it up, and even does a shit job of using his own power (he admits he is not even doing the best he could with his build). Top it off with healthy doses of paranoia, extreme caution, and a host of sychophantic yes-men and you have a recipe for problems that could otherwise be avoided.

An OP protagonist needs challenges, and if that challenge just happens to be their own incompetence then so be it.

 

[melchi]

It starts off with a somewhat interesting premise: the protagonist has to pretend to be an evil overlord despite being just a normal guy. So we see him trying to convince his followers to save some village here or some other people there, while making it sound like he really is evil and this is all part of his villainous plan.

The execution is honestly not all that great, but the story did have something going on... And then in the second season the MC becomes actually evil out of nowhere and everything goes to shit.

To be fair, the LN does a lot better job of showing why Ainz goes evil. It is because of his race. In the game he was a human playing an undead, but in the new world he is an actual undead. This is obvious right? But I don't think the anime does a good job of it.

Like if you watch the anime there are some times when he gets "worked up" like he normally would freak out... but he glows and suddenly calms down. That is his new race kicking in. He actually can't feel the same way his human self wants to because he is in fact no longer human.

Though I think the rest of the critique is valid. As the story progresses it is hard to not see the MC as an overpowered bully.

But it coming out of nowhere is not true, it is the change from human to undead taking hold.

 

[forli]

To be fair, the LN does a lot better job of showing why Ainz goes evil. It is because of his race. In the game he was a human playing an undead, but in the new world he is an actual undead. This is obvious right? But I don't think the anime does a good job of it.

Like if you watch the anime there are some times when he gets "worked up" like he normally would freak out... but he glows and suddenly calms down. That is his new race kicking in. He actually can't feel the same way his human self wants to because he is in fact no longer human.

Though I think the rest of the critique is valid. As the story progresses it is hard to not see the MC as an overpowered bully.

But it coming out of nowhere is not true, it is the change from human to undead taking hold.

I know that it is because of his race, that's what I meant when I said 'he's evil because he's a skeleton', if you think that my problem is that his change doesn't make any logical sense, that's by far the least of the issues here (although I'm really not convinced with the idea that removing someone's emotions would make them abandon all their morals).

I either didn't notice those moments you mentioned, or I don't remember them (Watched it a long time ago), I get why you feel that they could have worked as foreshadowing... except not really. If all that's shown is his emotions being neutralized by his race, I would have just assumed that it was just a way for the author to stop his cover from being blown too quickly; actual foreshadowing would be something like if one of these moments stopped him from stopping himself from doing something morally dubious. But even if that was the case, the actual shift is still way too abrupt, I mean, this guy who hadn't done anything really evil until now is suddenly ok with genocide and the story doesn't even acknowledge it, suddenly changing your protagonist's personality like that is always going to be very jarring, in any other story it would be played as some giant plot twist.

Honestly, the way it played out is so hard to believe that I'm seriously doubting myself now. I remember him just ordering the lizards killed, and the story just going as if that was something we should all expect from him. Am I misremembering it? Or are there any moments of him being evil before that that I forgot?

Anyway, even after all that, I still have not mentioned the REAL biggest problem I have with this entire concept, which is that ' his race makes him evil' has to be among the lamest ways to explain why I character is evil. That is something you normally see in a story that focuses on the heroes, so the motives of the villain don't matter. But in a story with a villain PROTAGONIST? This is an actual story-destroying decision, the main character is now arguably not even a character, as his decisions are not his own.

 

[melchi]

I know that it is because of his race, that's what I meant when I said 'he's evil because he's a skeleton', if you think that my problem is that his change doesn't make any logical sense, that's by far the least of the issues here (although I'm really not convinced with the idea that removing someone's emotions would make them abandon all their morals).

I either didn't notice those moments you mentioned, or I don't remember them (Watched it a long time ago), I get why you feel that they could have worked as foreshadowing... except not really. If all that's shown is his emotions being neutralized by his race, I would have just assumed that it was just a way for the author to stop his cover from being blown too quickly; actual foreshadowing would be something like if one of these moments stopped him from stopping himself from doing something morally dubious. But even if that was the case, the actual shift is still way too abrupt, I mean, this guy who hadn't done anything really evil until now is suddenly ok with genocide and the story doesn't even acknowledge it, suddenly changing your protagonist's personality like that is always going to be very jarring, in any other story it would be played as some giant plot twist.

Honestly, the way it played out is so hard to believe that I'm seriously doubting myself now. I remember him just ordering the lizards killed, and the story just going as if that was something we should all expect from him. Am I misremembering it? Or are there any moments of him being evil before that that I forgot?

Anyway, even after all that, I still have not mentioned the REAL biggest problem I have with this entire concept, which is that ' his race makes him evil' has to be among the lamest ways to explain why I character is evil. That is something you normally see in a story that focuses on the heroes, so the motives of the villain don't matter. But in a story with a villain PROTAGONIST? This is an actual story-destroying decision, the main character is now arguably not even a character, as his decisions are not his own.

Exactly. I am not disagreeing with you. Everything is valid and the actions don't make sense.

Just saying that the book hints at the internal struggle way better than the anime does.

 

[JayMark]

But even if that was the case, the actual shift is still way too abrupt, I mean, this guy who hadn't done anything really evil until now is suddenly ok with genocide and the story doesn't even acknowledge it, suddenly changing your protagonist's personality like that is always going to be very jarring, in any other story it would be played as some giant plot twist.

Have you ever done anything in video games that would be considered morrally dubious in real life?
Why not? It's just a game. It's all in good fun. There are no consequences. Only rewards.
Have you ever killed an NPC?
Have you ever player killed?
Have you ever had a pile of innocent creatures under foot to merely gain a few levels?

The main character has.
The main character lived in this world, among like minded players.
Within this 'game world' they brutalized any who oppossed them and expected the same from their enemies.
After all, it's just a game.
NPCs exists as stepping stones to achieve a goal.
Players exist as either allies, stones, or threats.

The game was dying. Other players moved on. The MC never could.
This world where MC felt most true to self.
The loss agonized him so much that he clung to a dead 'game world' until the last second of the end of its life.
Only one friend even bothered to show up to say goodbye.
To the MC, this 'game world' was more real, more important, more vital than the rest of a boring every day life.
In this world, our main character built something more real, more worthy of protecting, than anything else.
And when it comes to a second chance of protecting that which is held most dear, anything else can be sacrificed.
Hoardes of 'npcs' be damned. It's not genocide if it's just a game.

So while some may argue that the MC has become something unlike their original self for no real reason.
I will argue that said MC is being their most true self.
Always have.

The Ghengis Khan of Yggdrasil.

 

[forli]

Have you ever done anything in video games that would be considered morrally dubious in real life?
Why not? It's just a game. It's all in good fun. There are no consequences. Only rewards.
Have you ever killed an NPC?
Have you ever player killed?
Have you ever had a pile of innocent creatures under foot to merely gain a few levels?

The main character has.
The main character lived in this world, among like minded players.
Within this 'game world' they brutalized any who oppossed them and expected the same from their enemies.
After all, it's just a game.
NPCs exists as stepping stones to achieve a goal.
Players exist as either allies, stones, or threats.

The game was dying. Other players moved on. The MC never could.
This world where MC felt most true to self.
The loss agonized him so much that he clung to a dead 'game world' until the last second of the end of its life.
Only one friend even bothered to show up to say goodbye.
To the MC, this 'game world' was more real, more important, more vital than the rest of a boring every day life.
In this world, our main character built something more real, more worthy of protecting, than anything else.
And when it comes to a second chance of protecting that which is held most dear, anything else can be sacrificed.
Hoardes of 'npcs' be damned. It's not genocide if it's just a game.

So while some may argue that the MC has become something unlike their original self for no real reason.
I will argue that said MC is being their most true self.
Always have.

The Ghengis Khan of Yggdrasil.

So you think that the MC is evil because he sees the world as a game? Is there anything in the actual story that supports that? Because I'm pretty sure I remember him in the first episode realizing that this is a real world, and then proceeding to act as if all the people in this world are real.

I'm going to be honest here, this feels like you are just trying to write the story for the author.

 

[JayMark]

So you think that the MC is evil because he sees the world as a game? Is there anything in the actual story that supports that? Because I'm pretty sure I remember him in the first episode realizing that this is a real world, and then proceeding to act as if all the people in this world are real.

Partially. Yes, I think so. Though this is a side analysis that misses my main point entirely.

I'm going to be honest here, this feels like you are just trying to write the story for the author.

I'm interpreting, just as I would any story. Just as you were.