The VR Genre

[Sola-sama]

I stopped myself from reading any CN that is produced before 2020 recently, as I found a work that started in 2008 and boy, a shit ton of incelous racism for no good reason.

If you want to hate Eagleland, give a sufficient reason other than nothing. Hate it for being America is fine, just give something!

Perfectly understandable. CN works has some baseless hate and racism, JP has their beta male cuck MC, while KR has those weird obsession over stat and game elements. It's not limited to the VR genre, but yeah...

 

[melchi]

As someone with a fiction in a game world I feel a bit called out. O_O

But yeah, I agree that anyone who can make a character that is unbeatable by peers is going to ruin the game. Although it happens, depending on the fire that is lit under the dev's feet it'll get patched and removed. Though some bugs are tricky to remove so unless your readers are coders they shouldn't judge too harshly IMO. It takes a whole lot of effort to balance multi player PvP.

If you look at FFXIV until just a few years ago summoners could just cast their three DOTs on other DPS and then proc the off cooldowns all at once to spike that character to 0 health in a couple seconds.

But those abilities are not a problem for PvE the did a good job of keeping them balanced with other DPS it was just adding in PvP for a game with PvE as the main thing isn't easy because it never is easy to not work from a blank slate.

 

[NotaNuffian]

As someone with a fiction in a game world I feel a bit called out. O_O

But yeah, I agree that anyone who can make a character that is unbeatable by peers is going to ruin the game. Although it happens, depending on the fire that is lit under the dev's feet it'll get patched and removed. Though some bugs are tricky to remove so unless your readers are coders they shouldn't judge too harshly IMO. It takes a whole lot of effort to balance multi player PvP.

If you look at FFXIV until just a few years ago summoners could just cast their three DOTs on other DPS and then proc the off cooldowns all at once to spike that character to 0 health in a couple seconds.

But those abilities are not a problem for PvE the did a good job of keeping them balanced with other DPS it was just adding in PvP for a game with PvE as the main thing isn't easy because it never is easy to not work from a blank slate.

There is IRL accidental "oops" and then there is KR "let's fuck the player base by introducing classism".

I get that this is to lit a fire on the players' asses (incentivise) to get them to grind, but ensuring that there will be giant gaps in hierarchy in the player base is a surefire way to get people to leave for better games out there.

Which is why in VRMMORPG novels, there is only a single game, the highly IMBA mess owned by a monopoly.

 

[melchi]

Well that is just unrealistic. Unless that one game has some way to protect their monopoly power then someone will do what they can do better.

Like in ready player one oasis has become more of a platform than a game what with different worlds that are basically steam workshop.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Almost all the VR stories (key word almost) are very jarring to read if you're a gamer in any sense of the word. The issue with them is either the game makes no sense because it basically isn't fun to READ about someone playing an MMO, so they make it that the MC has found something broken or cheaty. A la, I focused on X and now I'm BROKEN. As people have already said, any game dev is going to just patch that out.

The ones that do it well emphasize other aspects, and the MMO is just an engine for it. Bofuri is pretty fun, and that is what it's meant to be, fun. Other people are also strong in their own ways, and the stakes are always low, and that's ok (although I got bored with it after a while).

There are a handful that take the fully simulated world path, where players in general are super powerful and npcs make up a large part of the economy. The basic thing I can take away from those stories is that its basically a way to purposefully create low stakes. Although I recall one where a different player was basically spawn camp bullied until they quit playing, which was an interesting take.

I think most of them are just people fantasizing about an alternate SAO without being trapped. (SAO as an mmo was real dumb though, so they're not exactly mimicking something that they should.)

 

[ArrogantYoungMaster]

This one greatly despises vr genre
What fucking game company spends money to write op unique classes + storylines for the first players who encounter them? The vr mmorpg has millions of daily players and world championships but now everyone else needs to kowtow to lv. 11 My_Ping_is_8851 the noob who collected all 35 shit-covered mushrooms from the Tutorial Area and gave a coughing old woman (secret God) a beginner healing potion
Also all the kr vr stories with game to real money exchanges can eat shit, Korea banned virtual item trading.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

This one greatly despises vr genre
What fucking game company spends money to write op unique classes + storylines for the first players who encounter them? The vr mmorpg has millions of daily players and world championships but now everyone else needs to kowtow to lv. 11 My_Ping_is_8851 the noob who collected all 35 shit-covered mushrooms from the Tutorial Area and gave a coughing old woman (secret God) a beginner healing potion
Also all the kr vr stories with game to real money exchanges can eat shit, Korea banned virtual item trading.

(Confused reaction )

 

[NotaNuffian]

Well that is just unrealistic. Unless that one game has some way to protect their monopoly power then someone will do what they can do better.

Like in ready player one oasis has become more of a platform than a game what with different worlds that are basically steam workshop.

Yup, that is what most all (including SAO cuz using the same bloody seed) VRMMORPG is all about. The game is not just a game, it's life.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Tbh, all of the VR stories I read ended up not being about VR at all. I guess the authors got bored too. The only one was Bofuri, and that's really just a comedy/slice of life- the VR is just a setting element.

If I were to list reasons why VR is better than similar genres, I could say that it allows all the fun Isekai stuff, while also allowing your characters to deal with more mundane problems like balancing work/school and the game.

I wanna say it lowers the stakes, and makes it so it can just have a fun story (like bofuri) but most of them take pains to raise the stakes back up (If you die in the game, you die in RL! or: some RL awful things are happening and you need to stop it from inside the game!).

That's not even mentioning the cases where it turns out it's not a game (anymore) at all.

I dunno, playing games is fun. VR stories are meant to recapture that feeling, and give you a specific story on the side. So it's just a setting element like any other. It's just one that's meant to be more familiar to the modern reader.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

The appeal of VRMMO novels sort of lies in their low stakes aspect. Most, if not all, of them tend to be Slice of Life, so the theme suits it well.

Interestingly, the difference between an isekai and VRMMO protagonist is minimal aside from the genre. They'd make the same choice in a similar situation, even if the stakes were totally different.

However, I think it is more consistent, for you wouldn't want to engage in a battle with a dragon even in a fantasy world. The protagonist would need a compelling reason, which is something this genre is exempt from. Also, due to the low stakes, it challenges the author to establish why readers should care about the story, and while they may not always succeed, the result is more favorable than poorly written isekai works.

VRMMO mimics real life but is ultimately a game, so game logic prevails, wherein a fantasy world is a real world. So certain things in isekai, like stats, skills, level, economy, and consequential decision-making, make less sense in the context of VRMMOs. Plus you don't have to deal with stuff like slavery.

Conclusion: If you are bored of the same life-and-death stake stories, or simply looking for a cozy adventure with a dash of adventure and action, VRMMO stories are a fine choice, in my opinion.

 

[Jemini]

It's called "the fucking developers forgeting/ intentionally imbalanced the game" by shitting out "legendary classes", ensuring classism ingame as well as IRL.

@Jemini once said, in our actual world, no one wants to play an unfair game. So VRMMORPG novels are just bollocks.

That does sound like something I'd say, but I'm having trouble right now remembering the context.

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

shit ton of incelous racism for no good reason.

Hmm, any examples of said "incelious racism" ? Never read one of those myself.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Hmm, any examples of said "incelious racism" ? Never read one of those myself.

Otherworldly Evil Monarch - Novel Updates

www.novelupdates.com

Read the CN raw version, the last enemy literally has Jap names.

That does sound like something I'd say, but I'm having trouble right now remembering the context.

Post in thread 'EXP and Levels' https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/exp-and-levels.7271/post-174486

Ps. It is similar, but I think the above link is the wrong one.

Post in thread 'EXP and Levels' https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/exp-and-levels.7271/post-174340

 

[ThrillingHuman]

I say it's a more case by case basis. I loved only sense online and 30000 battles. I guess the appeal here is characters interaction and growth? It's like SoL but in-game? It's the same as asking "what's the point of watching let's plays on youtube?" Which I guess is a valid question and one really shouldn't use that awful abusive platform but that's off topic and anyway, I mean to say is, the vr genre is fun to some people and that's good enough an answer what is your problem mate?

Read the CN raw version, the last enemy literally has Jap names.

that's not racism but a different kind of prejudice.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I say it's a more case by case basis. I loved only sense online and 30000 battles. I guess the appeal here is characters interaction and growth? It's like SoL but in-game? It's the same as asking "what's the point of watching let's plays on youtube?" Which I guess is a valid question and one really shouldn't use that awful abusive platform but that's off topic and anyway, I mean to say is, the vr genre is fun to some people and that's good enough an answer what is your problem mate?

that's not racism but a different kind of prejudice.

Hang on, I will find a recent one.

I deleted the bookmark after finally unable to stand it. The premise is nice initially, with the whole "Japan doing cultural invasion" and "America is the biggest drug cartel" being a fun read.

Then CN MC turns into the biggest genocider and destroyed an entire alternate world because "a world without China is not a world worth existing".

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Hang on, I will find a recent one.

I deleted the bookmark after finally unable to stand it. The premise is nice initially, with the whole "Japan doing cultural invasion" and "America is the biggest drug cartel" being a fun read.

Then CN MC turns into the biggest genocider and destroyed an entire alternate world because "a world without China is not a world worth existing".

ngl that does sound pretty hilarious.

 

[NotaNuffian]

ngl that does sound pretty hilarious.

Yeah well, I can't find the work now.

Fml

So the basic premise is this, MC and his father go to Mexico from China in order to illegally immigrate to America. MC becomes one leg short and daddy-o got cancer.

Then some BS happened and MC gets a mystic chinese treasure (a mirror) that allows him to go to an alternate world, a world before China getting buttfucked by the 8 nations. Also there are martial artists and gods.

Ps. I really can't find it.

Is there any easy way to restore bookmark in Samsung Internet?

Pps. Found it. FUCK IT IS NOT IN THE USUAL GENRE AT ALL.

我能用意念粉碎星球​

@TrashyHuman

 

[Deleted member 113259]

As a comedy writer let me just say VR kind of sucks for all genres. If there's no threat of horrific violence then how are people going to enjoy their light hearted slice of life stories?

 

[Temple]

I guess it's a low stakes fun type thing.

Even litrpgs of the fantasy real-world type are low stakes. Like, we know that the MC is not going to die, especially if it's also OP MC genre. The web/light novel will go on for hundreds of chapters, and no one is thinking that the MC will die no matter the stakes. And we don't care about side characters dying either since it's going to be reader self-insert, wish-fulfillment anyway. To me, the choice between VR and going real-life fantasy is how "gamey" it is, and the seriousness of the interactions. Also, whether an author goes for MMO vibes, or wants to be fantasy-esque but also takes advantage of the power of numbers in web/light novels.

I'm writing a VR story where the reader is not supposed to self insert, and there are plenty of real-life interactions, to see how readers react. Pretty interesting.

The issue with them is either the game makes no sense because it basically isn't fun to READ about someone playing an MMO, so they make it that the MC has found something broken or cheaty. A la, I focused on X and now I'm BROKEN.

That's the point though. It's just a vehicle for the OP MC genre. And OP MC is under wish-fulfillment, meaning the MC has to be special. Also, the MC usually follows the hero's journey plot structure, so he really has to be special, even if special means imbalanced game.

I'm just going to use myself as an example. A decade ago, SAO anime came out. I was an avid gamer then. I was a fan of SAO because of the OP MC trope. It, being in a game, also tugged at me. When I got past my OP MC phase, I looked back and questioned a lot of things about SAO, like why is the MC the only dual wielder, etc. But at the time I was a fan of SAO, I didn't question those things because I was self-inserting. I want to feel special and powerful, and I want to have cheat abilities no one else has even if it didn't make sense. (sad, I know. just excused my ten years past self)

This is like questioning why Fifty Shades of Grey isn't an actual BDSM story. Actual BDSM practitioners bash it. But it's just using BDSM as a vehicle for a different trope. I'm using Fifty Shades as an example because it actually does wish-fulfilment very, very well, as can be seen by becoming a billion-dollar franchise.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Even litrpgs of the fantasy real-world type are low stakes. Like, we know that the MC is not going to die, especially if it's also OP MC genre. The web/light novel will go on for hundreds of chapters, and no one is thinking that the MC will die no matter the stakes. And we don't care about side characters dying either since it's going to be reader self-insert, wish-fulfillment anyway. To me, the choice between VR and going real-life fantasy is how "gamey" it is, and the seriousness of the interactions. Also, whether an author goes for MMO vibes, or wants to be fantasy-esque but also takes advantage of the power of numbers in web/light novels.

I'm writing a VR story where the reader is not supposed to self insert, and there are plenty of real-life interactions, to see how readers react. Pretty interesting.

Which one is it? I might take a gander.