The careful line to thread between Mary-Sue and Anti-Sue

[VanVeleca]

(Or Gary-Stu and Anti-Stu)

I've recently been told by an oomf who read some future chapter WIPs for me that most of my main characters have "Anti-Sue" traits. After they said that, I found myself agreeing even though it wasn't on purpose, kind of like this:

Seriously I didn't mean for my characters to seem so heavily misfortunate so early on I mean, I did? but I forgot that the concept of a Anti-Sue exists.

For those who don't know or are only familiar with the much more popular "Mary Sue" trope: An Anti-Sue is almost exactly what you'd think from the name alone, the opposite of a Mary Sue. It's a character who is often very weak, gets the worst end of the stick in the story often, a bunch of character hate them even though they haven't done anything to warrant such strong feelings and overall constantly suffers just because.

I suppose that's good for a story in the drama genre though, right?...But maybe I could insert a few more happy moments for them occasionally before I hit chapter 50

 

[ArchlordZero]

Just wondering, is Anti-Sue the same as girlfailure?

 

[VanVeleca]

Just wondering, is Anti-Sue the same as girlfailure?

Hmm...Sorta? It depends on intent. A girlfailure is often a loser because it makes her cute and endears her to the audience, often she still has an overall comfortable tale but she's just a clumsy nutcase. A Anti-Sue/Stu suffers for either the sake of the story or because the author is a bit of a sadist, sometimes a mix of both. There is no intent to make their shitty experiences something that is meant to be pitied or cause the audience to necessarily feel sorry for them.

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

Mary-Sue or Gary-Sue are not fun because ther are no dynamic outside of them bragging about their powers.

Best example of very strong protagonist with stronger than most Mary-Sue/Gary-stu power are Rimuru Tempest from Slime Tensei series.

Sure hes damn strong and can do many impossible feats. And he grew stronger in bery short time

But there's more to the story than just protagonist being strong. There are aftermath and things to deal with outside of Rimuru being strong and deals with it.

Many story with cahacter that has less power than Rimuru feels liek Mary-Sue/Gary-stu because of how they handle the power-and-story impact.

Especially Slime Diaries. Its a diary of very strong characters with differences in powers, yet they still lives their daily lives in a relaxing and fun to watch ways.

Mary Sue/Gary Stu ≠ Strong Characters.

The problem arent the strenght. The problem is the lack of story and interactions around them.

 

[Cipiteca396]

For those who don't know or are only familiar with the much more popular "Mary Sue" trope: An Anti-Sue is almost exactly what you'd think from the name alone, the opposite of a Mary Sue. It's a character who is often very weak, gets the worst end of the stick in the story often, a bunch of character hate them even though they haven't done anything to warrant such strong feelings and overall constantly suffers just because.

Ah, I actually found the trope, and it seems you're missing the point.

The common thread between a Mary Sue and an Anti-Sue is that they're both the center of the universe; the plot and all the characters will go far out of their way for the sake of the Sue. Basically, if a trait or event exists just to draw attention to how (descriptor) a character is, that's not a good sign.

Instead of crippling your characters, the "fix" is to develop them and the plot into a single, cohesive whole. Things should happen for an in-universe reason, with characters maintaining or growing persistent personality traits, for better and for worse.

If that's not the actual problem, then you're looking at a Woobie or Designated Monkey, which is a different "problem".

 

[CharlesEBrown]

After seeing her in Stranger Things, Enola Holmes, the Legendary Godzilla movies, and a dragon thing on Netflix, I'm thinking either Millie Bobby Brown should be legally forced to change her name to Mary Sue or we should start calling Mary Sues Millie Bobby Browns...

 

[VanVeleca]

Ah, I actually found the trope, and it seems you're missing the point.

The common thread between a Mary Sue and an Anti-Sue is that they're both the center of the universe; the plot and all the characters will go far out of their way for the sake of the Sue. Basically, if a trait or event exists just to draw attention to how (descriptor) a character is, that's not a good sign.

Instead of crippling your characters, the "fix" is to develop them and the plot into a single, cohesive whole. Things should happen for an in-universe reason, with characters maintaining or growing persistent personality traits, for better and for worse.

If that's not the actual problem, then you're looking at a Woobie or Designated Monkey, which is a different "problem".

I mean, I was told they only have traits and are not full on just that trope Woobie doesn't sound right at all and neither does monkey to describe them...but I guess it's because I'm the author not the reader, the way a reader sees them will always be different from the way I see them. Death of the author and such.