Need A Scene (How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?)

[TheEldritchGod]

TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

Okay, Think Typical Generic Japanese Middle-Ages European Ambient Nobility Otome Game.

You got your Blonde Crown Prince, You got your Black Haired Villainess Who Wears Red And Has Drill Curls, You Got your Sweet Innocent FL Who is Commoner, but has Light Magic So She's Been Allowed Into The Magic School.

Prince is falling for Sweet Innocent MC, Villainess has been Harrassing her, Blah Blah Blah. Standard Boilerplate.

The difference is, The MC, The ML has been messing with the villainess' head and got her thinking that maybe the Crown Prince is an asshole and maybe she'd be better off just letting the FL and Crown Prince get married. Who cares if she's the Empress Anyways?

However, I need to Push her one more time. I've been writing the end of book one and realized, I didn't push the villainess far enough for her to have the change of heart. So I need a particular scene.

Up until this point, she has beent he bog standard Sorceress type villain (someone who uses the rules of society to gain power) Her power is the influance she has over others. I need her to realize that only having control over others doesn't do you any good if someone has a gun in your face. Having PERSONAL power is important to. So, up until this point, she's been negelicting her magical studies. Who needs to know fire magic if I have bodyguards?

The problem is, I can't QUITE just have someone put a gun in her face. It'll fuck up the tone of the story. I need some scene where she comes to the conclusion, Maybe I DO need to 'Get Gud' and not just rely on having blackmail on everyone around me. It has to be short and one scene, because I only got a two week window and part of that two weeks will have to be her doing something very dangerous to take a shortcut to 'GET GUD'.

I got THAT planned out, but it wouldn't be in character for her to JUST do it. (I refuse to use the idiot ball to push the plot.)

But I'm not sure WHAT. So, I need ideas that will push her to want to 'GET GUD', but it cannot be 'Her life was in danger'.

Feel free to come up with any whacky situation you want. Make up new characters, or whatever. If you give me a good core idea, I can make it fit.

EDIT: Killing a friend of hers is on the table, But I would rather not do that JUST yet.


TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Losing a bet with a magic contract?

Edit-
or she wants to do something that she cannot do with her current power?

What would convince the readers that personal powers are important, not just power via influence?

 

[ArcadiaBlade]

A challenge? Like she has to fight in a fair battle and realizes that even though she has connections, what it would do when if she can't rely on them at all?

Its like in an rpg game where you battle a boss and rely on that one OP dude so much that you didn't realize that he was only temporary and when you get to an arena which you had to face an enemy all alone. Then you realize how underleveled your character is because of that.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

I like using Envy.
having someone be envious of how other people are doing compared to them.

In fact, you already see a lot of it today in society.

 

[ArchlordZero]

Make him lose a lot in practice battles against his master/friend/rival

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Losing a bet with a magic contract?

Ah...

A challenge? Like she has to fight in a fair battle and realizes that even though she has connections, what it would do when if she can't rely on them at all?

Yes... She gets challenged and loses, resulting in her having to pay out on a bet

Make him lose a lot in practice battles against his master/friend/rival

It's a "her", but yes.

I like using Envy.

The Envy of losing out to someone who was supposedly weaker and wanting to beat them at their own game out of pride. Yes.

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.

 

[melchi]

If backstabbing is the norm then perhaps a situation pops up where her lack of ability to protect herself comes back to bite her?

Scheming nobles launch a multi-pronged plot...this leads to that... and heir apparent ends up having to stomach a bunch of humiliation. Nothing is a painful to stomach for nobility as loss of face.

Like when playing diablo 3 in hardcore mode, not equipping at least one cheat death is just asking for it.

 

[Plantorsomething]

TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

Okay, Think Typical Generic Japanese Middle-Ages European Ambient Nobility Otome Game.

You got your Blonde Crown Prince, You got your Black Haired Villainess Who Wears Red And Has Drill Curls, You Got your Sweet Innocent FL Who is Commoner, but has Light Magic So She's Been Allowed Into The Magic School.

Prince is falling for Sweet Innocent MC, Villainess has been Harrassing her, Blah Blah Blah. Standard Boilerplate.

The difference is, The MC, The ML has been messing with the villainess' head and got her thinking that maybe the Crown Prince is an asshole and maybe she'd be better off just letting the FL and Crown Prince get married. Who cares if she's the Empress Anyways?

However, I need to Push her one more time. I've been writing the end of book one and realized, I didn't push the villainess far enough for her to have the change of heart. So I need a particular scene.

Up until this point, she has beent he bog standard Sorceress type villain (someone who uses the rules of society to gain power) Her power is the influance she has over others. I need her to realize that only having control over others doesn't do you any good if someone has a gun in your face. Having PERSONAL power is important to. So, up until this point, she's been negelicting her magical studies. Who needs to know fire magic if I have bodyguards?

The problem is, I can't QUITE just have someone put a gun in her face. It'll fuck up the tone of the story. I need some scene where she comes to the conclusion, Maybe I DO need to 'Get Gud' and not just rely on having blackmail on everyone around me. It has to be short and one scene, because I only got a two week window and part of that two weeks will have to be her doing something very dangerous to take a shortcut to 'GET GUD'.

I got THAT planned out, but it wouldn't be in character for her to JUST do it. (I refuse to use the idiot ball to push the plot.)

But I'm not sure WHAT. So, I need ideas that will push her to want to 'GET GUD', but it cannot be 'Her life was in danger'.

Feel free to come up with any whacky situation you want. Make up new characters, or whatever. If you give me a good core idea, I can make it fit.

EDIT: Killing a friend of hers is on the table, But I would rather not do that JUST yet.


TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

I think she needs to realize how fragile people’s opinions can be. Something like a long time ally switching over something political or frivolous. Make her scramble to obtain any sense of stability by gaining physical/magical power

 

[DataNerdX]

If blackmail is something that she's relying on, it makes sense for one of those instances to fail and fail badly, either putting her existing or future influence in peril. I don't have details about these blackmail attempts but maybe something like being exposed for blackmail? Edit: It'll be best if what you want her to "get gud" in would have resolved the situation without issue.

 

[hippoman]

Maybe she overhears a conversation that paints a result or the current path in a way she doesnt want to see come to fruition or generally just bad mouthing her for what she was originally set out to do? or maybe she hears her parents voice concerns that she believes doing what you want her to do she thinks would resolve.

 

[Lloyd]

NTR them

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Does your character need to be powerful? If she does, why? Then you have your reason. Otherwise, she indeed is better off with bodyguards and servantsx

 

[LilRora]

What I would do is have someone refuse her.

Like, she comes to a person she knows can solve some important problem she has and she is so sure she is already getting it solved, and the refusal sends her out of the Milky Way out of sheer unexpectedness that it could end this way.

Afterwards, after trying to convince the person with a greater payment and failing, she would start thinking how else to solve the problem and stumble upon the fact that if she was stronger, she would not even need to ask for help in the first place.

The problem can actually be that fair battle.

 

[Deleted member 122296]

TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

Okay, Think Typical Generic Japanese Middle-Ages European Ambient Nobility Otome Game.

You got your Blonde Crown Prince, You got your Black Haired Villainess Who Wears Red And Has Drill Curls, You Got your Sweet Innocent FL Who is Commoner, but has Light Magic So She's Been Allowed Into The Magic School.

Prince is falling for Sweet Innocent MC, Villainess has been Harrassing her, Blah Blah Blah. Standard Boilerplate.

The difference is, The MC, The ML has been messing with the villainess' head and got her thinking that maybe the Crown Prince is an asshole and maybe she'd be better off just letting the FL and Crown Prince get married. Who cares if she's the Empress Anyways?

However, I need to Push her one more time. I've been writing the end of book one and realized, I didn't push the villainess far enough for her to have the change of heart. So I need a particular scene.

Up until this point, she has beent he bog standard Sorceress type villain (someone who uses the rules of society to gain power) Her power is the influance she has over others. I need her to realize that only having control over others doesn't do you any good if someone has a gun in your face. Having PERSONAL power is important to. So, up until this point, she's been negelicting her magical studies. Who needs to know fire magic if I have bodyguards?

The problem is, I can't QUITE just have someone put a gun in her face. It'll fuck up the tone of the story. I need some scene where she comes to the conclusion, Maybe I DO need to 'Get Gud' and not just rely on having blackmail on everyone around me. It has to be short and one scene, because I only got a two week window and part of that two weeks will have to be her doing something very dangerous to take a shortcut to 'GET GUD'.

I got THAT planned out, but it wouldn't be in character for her to JUST do it. (I refuse to use the idiot ball to push the plot.)

But I'm not sure WHAT. So, I need ideas that will push her to want to 'GET GUD', but it cannot be 'Her life was in danger'.

Feel free to come up with any whacky situation you want. Make up new characters, or whatever. If you give me a good core idea, I can make it fit.

EDIT: Killing a friend of hers is on the table, But I would rather not do that JUST yet.


TL/DR: How do you push someone into wanting to 'GET GUD' at personal power without a life or death situation?

TL/DR: The villainess sees a close friend or family member lose everything 'cause they only had social power, not personal power. She realizes she's gotta level up her own skills to avoid the same fate.

So, you wanna make the villainess wanna "GET GUD" at personal power without getting all life-or-death on her, right? You could have her see someone she's close to totally crash and burn 'cause they only had connections and social power, but no real skills to back it up. This person could be a BFF, a family member, or even someone she looks up to.

Bring in a new character that the villainess really cares about, who's been all about using their connections and charm to keep things going their way. But then, bam! They get stabbed in the back by the same people they thought were on their side. Since they don't have any personal power to fight back, they end up losing everything and are totally humiliated.

The villainess sees all this go down and it's like a bucket of ice water in the face. She gets that just having social power isn't enough and that she needs to up her game with some personal power to keep herself safe. This gets her all fired up to "GET GUD" and not just rely on knowing other people's dirty secrets. So, she starts hunting for ways to boost her own skills, which leads her to that risky shortcut you've got planned.

This way, you keep the story's vibe while giving the villainess a solid reason to work on her personal power.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Does your character need to be powerful? If she does, why? Then you have your reason. Otherwise, she indeed is better off with bodyguards and servantsx

The character is on a bit of a redemption arc. Think Necessary Evil.

Here. let me just simplify it.

The MC is a AnCap ML Who is CG. He believes in The Mighty Must Protect The Weak and Society Exists To Shackle Man who is inherently GOOD. He cares not what anyone thinks about him because he is The Chosen One who is here to Save The World and it is his job to do the right thing NO MATTER WHAT. Man can survive without society. Power doesn't corrupt. The addiction to power is what corrupts. If you don't enjoy power, they you can have as much as you want as long as it is a means onto an end.

The Villainess is A Fascist FL who is LE. She believes in might makes right and Society Exists to Shackle Man who is inherently EVIL. She cares what everyone thinks and uses the rules of society to control everything and make sure that society survives NO MATTER WHAT. Man cannot survive without society. Power ultimately corrupts and only by everyone being entangled in a web of obligation and submission can the corruption be contained and thus man prosper.

I'l already arranged for the ML to realize, "Society isn't all bad. It does protect those who are weak who I cannot always protect and some people are inherently evil."

Now I need the FL to realize that "Being selfless and self-sacrificing isn't always bad. It feels good to be the good guy."

Basically, the ML is moving towards being NG. and the FL is moving towards being LN.

BUT, in order for that to happen, the FL needs to HAVE personal power that she can use to BE self-sacrificing when the time comes. She is too weak at the current point I have written, so I need her to get a power up, but I don't want to be lame about it. The desire to power-up must come from within. So, She needs something to happen to make her realize, "I NEED TO BE STRONGER, PERSONALLY." Then, when the time comes, she will be strong enough to 'do the right thing' and save the day herself, thus realizing, "Oh. Now I get why the Hero does heroic things. It's nice when people thank you and actually mean it."

However, I don't want to be lame and just Threaten her life. I need that scene for something else later and I don't want to just repeat myself.

If she changes as a character because her life was in danger, why would she change EVEN MORE, the next time she is in a life in death situation? Doesn't that sound lame? Why wouldn't she just change all the way the first time?

So she needs to change a little bit for a reason that ISN'T life or death, then she can change a different way when she almost dies later in another part of the story.

See?

In book two, they will have to team up to protect the kingdom, because everyone else is going to be fucked.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

MC can mess with villainess' head and get her thinking that maybe having personal power is important.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

MC can mess with villainess' head and get her thinking that maybe having personal power is important.

He has been. She's ALMOST THERE. I just need to final push. And actually, I got it. So thanks for the suggestion. I do things in threes. She has already got two reasons to change, I just needed the third one. The loosing the bet method works well.

TL/DR: The villainess sees a close friend or family member lose everything 'cause they only had social power, not personal power. She realizes she's gotta level up her own skills to avoid the same fate.

I'm sort of using this. I'm combining the envy and lost bet angle. But the 'friend who is an example of what NOT to do' is being factored in at another part in the story.

 

[greyblob]

Now I need the FL to realize that "Being selfless and self-sacrificing isn't always bad. It feels good to be the good guy."

i can think of a few ways.
1. she cares for the MC. he is injured/sick and there is no one but her to care for him.
2. children/someone vulnerable. orphanage is a good example. have her help children in some way and get innocent affection in return.
3. assuming the MC is kind, he'll help someone and she'll feel jealousy. instead of fueling her negative feeling, MC will have her help in his place/involve her in some way.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

BUT, in order for that to happen, the FL needs to HAVE personal power that she can use to BE self-sacrificing when the time comes.

Can't she just self-sacrifice as is? It's not like ordinary people can't be self-sacrificing, and no matter what, if she hadn't been pursuing personal strength all her life, she can't reasonably have enough to count when it comes to self-sacrifice anyway.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Can't she just self-sacrifice as is? It's not like ordinary people can't be self-sacrificing, and no matter what, if she hadn't been pursuing personal strength all her life, she can't reasonably have enough to count when it comes to self-sacrifice anyway.

Wouldn't be poetic. There's a symmetry to this. The scene in question also will set up another scene which will be misinterpreted by someone else to justify their prejudicious so that it mirrors previous actions. It's a series of "And So" that leads to a reversal of fortunes. Each domino knocks over the next and presents both the path and the path not taken so that the reader can see the results of both choices and determine who was right.

It's not just self-sacrifice but also a microcosm of the greater picture as well as a metaphor for economic and political structures while neatly wrapping up a revenge plot and allowing the Main Villain to make a dramatic entrance. Everything has to line up JUST right or none of it will make any sense.