[Help me] As a reader, how cinematic do you think the fight scenes in this chapter?

As a reader, how cinematic do you think the fight scenes in this chapter?

  • 5 - Cinematic - Like seeing the event live or watching a 4K movie.

  • 4 - Clear - Easy to imagine with minimal focus.

  • 3 - Transparent - Fairly easy, but requires full focus.

  • 2 - Opaque - Difficult to imagine and often vague.

  • 1 - Abstract - Too vague/confusing.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Eldoria

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Um... did I mention how to monologue while fighting? :blob_hide:
Well, some of the details of the scenes may seem strange (what kind of crazy person would preach while fighting brutally in real life?).

I admit I'm heavily inspired by LN, manga, and anime. The dramatic effects of the fights leave a lasting impression, at least on me as a reader.

Although realistically... I know this is nearly impossible. So, my standards for realistic combat may be quite low here. :blob_joy:
 

L1aei

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Although realistically... I know this is nearly impossible. So, my standards for realistic combat may be quite low here. :blob_joy:

Not impossible. I used to be defensive tackle in football for years, even had a radioactive orange mouthguard in my mouth that used to dig into my upper gums, and I could talk just fine when shouldering my way through a line of other guys. It's just the way someone speaks that changes. You know when you gasp or breathe out when there is an impact? That's kind of how one would monologue during a fight.
 

Macha

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Although realistically... I know this is nearly impossible. So, my standards for realistic combat may be quite low here. :blob_joy:
If you're writing fantasy and a reader complained about realism, you know that reader can't read.
 

MFontana

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I appreciate your attention. I probably don't want to be too much of a bother here. So, I'll ask for a one-time read for ease of feedback. Thank you for your feedback.
It's no trouble, El. Really. I've got about four hours to kill in the morning, so reading and critiquing for you is a fine way to spend some of it.
You will find his feedback constructive. This is because him and M.G Driver is the same being.
Who?
Or is that some kind of reference that I'm completely missing?
 

Macha

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It's no trouble, El. Really. I've got about four hours to kill in the morning, so reading and critiquing for you is a fine way to spend some of it.
You're using nicknames already, that's cute.

Who?
Or is that some kind of reference that I'm completely missing?
?
Would you rather be grouped among @Racosharko and his alts? (not asking, just saying as a reaction)
 

CLASS_NOT_AUTHOR

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The fight itself was excellent. I don't know if this is proper advice or just some stupid thing only I am doing, but the damage seems lacking. When Clara wins the battle, Erna's injuries aren't mentioned at all. The other thing bothering me is the repetition of the word "woman". It is used more than "she", which kinda removes the purpose of a pronoun in the first place. Try replacing woman with she whenever there is no adjective used. Doesn't have anything to do with the fight, but the repetiton damages the flow of prose. Other than that, good job.
4/5(Would have given 5, but something just feels off. IDK what.)
Sorry for the poor review. I tried.
 

Eldoria

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The fight itself was excellent. I don't know if this is proper advice or just some stupid thing only I am doing, but the damage seems lacking. When Clara wins the battle, Erna's injuries aren't mentioned at all. The other thing bothering me is the repetition of the word "woman". It is used more than "she", which kinda removes the purpose of a pronoun in the first place. Try replacing woman with she whenever there is no adjective used. Doesn't have anything to do with the fight, but the repetiton damages the flow of prose. Other than that, good job.
4/5(Would have given 5, but something just feels off. IDK what.)
Sorry for the poor review. I tried.
I appreciate your feedback. Thank you.
 

TinaMigarlo

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You're using nicknames already, that's cute.

I know, right. Brace yourself. I refer to Eldoria as... little one, The Oracle, others things as well.
now "el" sounds nice I'll pick that one up too.
Little one? I'll try to remember to read this when I get home from work tonight.
 

Eldoria

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I know, right. Brace yourself. I refer to Eldoria as... little one, The Oracle, others things as well.
now "el" sounds nice I'll pick that one up too.
Little one? I'll try to remember to read this when I get home from work tonight.
Well, you can take your time whenever you want. Have a nice day.
 

TinaMigarlo

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Eldoria

Well, you can take your time whenever you want. Have a nice day.
answer:
its work, it'll suck, lol. but how could I refuse The Oracle.
 

Eldoria

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The fight itself was excellent. I don't know if this is proper advice or just some stupid thing only I am doing, but the damage seems lacking. When Clara wins the battle, Erna's injuries aren't mentioned at all.
Edit: I don't know if this is good or bad... as you're confused, why is Erna's injury mentioned at the end of the fight?

Because Erna was barely injured in this fight except for a few minor scratches. Erna lost not because she was weak but because she was tactically defeated. A gun was pointed at Erna's head but physically... Erna was still fine.

So, if you understand there were no injuries worth mentioning, your imagination is accurate according to my perception as the author.
 

MFontana

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The night air froze between the two women standing in the mist-shrouded road. Dust settled slowly to the ground as the fog began to thicken once more.

To the east stood Clara, her fists clenched tight. To the west stood Erna, arms crossed calmly, her crimson eyes locked onto Clara’s green ones.
...
For a moment, the world went silent.
Under the lens of what you're aiming for El, this bit is exceptional. You're hitting all of the beats you're after to build visual tension for the coming conflict.

The only thing that's really missing from the opening here, is the context for the fight. The "Why" of it. I'm confident you've got that covered in the full chapter content, though.

The sharp break from the rest works well for the tone and to give this opening a bit more breathing room.

If you want to build up the tension and texture for the fight, you could expand this with more world-building, environmental, or contextual details to let the beat simmer a bit longer before the fight starts.

Alternatively, a few brief beats of dialogue could work wonders to set a baseline for the character dynamic here.

But as for what's here, keep it. You've nailed the "easy visuals" target you were aiming for. Even on a light skim, I was easily able to build a mental picture of the scene.

Erna reached into her pocket and flipped a silver coin into the air. The coin spun, gleaming faintly—then landed with a sharp ring.

“Cling…”

The sound was like a countdown. Both women lunged forward simultaneously—the battle had begun!
This part, however, could use a bit more detail, and as a minor technical nitpick, the onomatopoeia probably shouldn't be in quotes, as it isn't being said by either character.

For example; what did the coin land on to create the sound? Metal? Stone? Something else?

Still solid on the visual/cinematic side, but it could stand to breathe a bit more; and (if you haven't established how they look yet) this could be a good place to add more details about their appearances as well in order to let it do just that.

Clara reinforced her arms with mana, her strikes hardened by magic. She charged forward and threw a punch with all her might. Erna countered with her mist-infused fist.

When their blows met, the impact burst through the air—
Functionally speaking, this works pretty well as a baseline structure but would definitely benefit from more visual details.

What does "Clara reinforced her arms with mana" look like? Does she feel anything when she's doing so? Are there any tell-tale signs of her doing so? (Sounds, Visuals, Feelings). The same for "Erna countered with her mist-infused fist."

The choreography could also be a bit clearer. Where is the punch aimed? Are either of them in any form of stance?

Lastly, the clashing of their strikes itself. This is a perfect chance to showcase the power-scale between them, and the line "When their blows met, the impact burst through the air." could use some clarity.

How does the clash sound? How does it feel for them? How much force is behind the clash? How did their blows meet? Fist-to-Fist? Block? Parry? Counter-Attack?

“Wush!”

A shockwave shattered the surrounding fog.

Wind swept through, whipping brown hair. Lady Serena shielded her eyes from the gust. When she looked again, she saw Clara gritting her teeth, fist locked against the double ponytail woman’s hand. Across from her, Erna smiled faintly, blood trickling from her fingers.
This addresses a lot of the choreography beats as aftermath rather than in-the-moment and drops a third character into the mix.

The only major question I have here is about the timing. A lot of it (All great, by the way) could possibly function better in the moment of the opening clash, only to be further expanded on here in the aftermath.

The rest is just tiny details.
"Wind swept through, whipping brown hair" - Whose hair? Both fighters? All three? Someone specific?

Also, the onomatopoeia here could probably be cut, it hurts the scene more than it helps here.

Clara drew back her right arm and unleashed a flurry of rapid strikes, giving Erna no room to breathe.

Erna blocked each blow—right arm, left arm, again and again—each punch forcing her three feet backwards.

“If every suffering must be repaid with vengeance, then nothing will remain after the cycle ends!” Clara shouted.

She stopped, stomped hard, and leapt into the air, spinning her body midair. Her left leg crashed into Erna like a hammer.

“Thud!”

Erna was hurled ten feet away—“Brugh—kraak… krashhh!”—smashing into rubble as dust exploded outward.
Got a large chunk here for the next bit of the fight; and as before the structure is solid. It's clear and concise, with an obvious intent and vision.

Does it work for what you're going for? Yes. It absolutely does.
Does it still need polish? Also yes.

Starting with the opening flurry.
Direct, descriptive details could enhance the delivery of the flurry's choreography for greater visual impact. Rather than just saying "and unleashed a flurry of rapid strikes" I'd suggest saying what the attack pattern is, and tag it with "in a flurry of rapid strikes"

Next, the dialogue line. That's pure gold. The only thing I'd suggest is adjusting the timing to parallel Clara's barrage. You're making the fight more than just "two people fighting" and into a clash of ideals and beliefs. This kind of conflict hits harder, in all the right ways, and you're delivering on it spectacularly.

Next point, Erna's answer to the flurry.
It's more of the same. Solid foundation, but could benefit from more visceral detail. Show the pressure she's under. Show whether the blocks are easy, or difficult for her.

The spatial positioning is solid, but there's a lack of an answer from Erna to the ideological hit, and this is a perfect time to show her beliefs as well.
The only nitpick I'd point out is the measurements here. They're a bit on the excessive side and don't really do much to help the scene. A more general reference could work a bit better to keep the focus on their fight.
The climax (of this exchange) is great too, at the foundational level.

I'd only suggest trimming out the onomatopoeia here, and the repetition of "stomped" in favor of more detailed choreography or descriptive expression of the impacts.

Overall, I'd say the opening beats are a fairly solid foundation here, El. There's a lot of room for improvements and clarity as well as a lot more detail to enhance the visuals you're going for.

It is certainly easy to visualize the fight sequence, but the immersion in the fight so far has been faltering (for me). Not because it's bad (it isn't, so don't go letting anyone tell you it is), but because of the frequent cuts in the action and scene for the onomatopoeia hits and the consistent staccato beat structure of the prose that doesn't really give the beats much room to breathe.

In moderation, the staccato sentence and paragraph structure can drive home the intensity of the moments that need to hit hard and fast, but when the majority of a scene, or worse, a story use the same structure it flattens the narrative's emotional intensity and hinders investment in the scene and narrative.

The best advice I can offer, is to try and consolidate what you can, expand the beats that you can, and save the sharper staccato hits for the moments that need them. To do whatever you can to try and vary the sentence and paragraph structure.

As for whether I like the fight so far, or not, I am firmly in the camp of "I like this fight scene." The simple truth is I want to keep reading, and see what happens next, but have to take a break from critiquing in parallel.

With what I've managed to get through so far, I'd give the scene a solid 4/5 on the scale you're using.

There's a few spots it dips to a 3/5 (like the flurry sequence), and a few that it hits a 5/5 (like the opening), but never (for me anyway) does it drop below that.

I sincerely hope this helps, El, and can continue the critique for you later tonight if you want.
 

Representing_Tromba

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I understand what is going on but it feels like a Manga panel rather than a cinematic movie. It feels like a list of actions but that is a fairly easy fix since you have the whole fight already written. Just needs some melding in the editing process. :blob_salute:
 

Eldoria

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With what I've managed to get through so far, I'd give the scene a solid 4/5 on the scale you're using.

There's a few spots it dips to a 3/5 (like the flurry sequence), and a few that it hits a 5/5 (like the opening), but never (for me anyway) does it drop below that.

I sincerely hope this helps, El, and can continue the critique for you later tonight if you want.
Your feedback is very detailed and technical. I appreciate your criticism and suggestions, especially regarding the choreography and detailed effects of the fight.

This battle simulation is visualized based on my imagination. So, the technical details are likely underrepresented.

I understand that authors tend to have a cognitive bias... where they might assume what they narrate reflects their thoughts (including me). However, readers may provide different interpretations.

Therefore, this is where measuring immersion, especially regarding scene visualization, is important so that the narrative can be written more accurate.

On the other hand, I do have a tendency to leave the details to the reader. So, in terms of visualization, it's closer to functional than aesthetic.

Ultimately... I should probably find the right balance between detail and choreography to narrate a better fight scene. Thank you for your feedback.

Best regards.
I understand what is going on but it feels like a Manga panel rather than a cinematic movie. It feels like a list of actions but that is a fairly easy fix since you have the whole fight already written. Just needs some melding in the editing process. :blob_salute:
You're right. I may have depicted the flow of the scenes sequentially... but it's far from enough to achieve a cinematic visualization. Thank you for your feedback.
 

Fairemont

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My biggest take away of this is the phrasing.

There is a gross overreliance on a singular type of sentence: "[name] does [something], [pronoun]'s [object] [verbed].

This sentence format accounts for a bulk of the prose.
 

Macha

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Your feedback is very detailed and technical. I appreciate your criticism and suggestions, especially regarding the choreography and detailed effects of the fight.

This battle simulation is visualized based on my imagination. So, the technical details are likely underrepresented.

I understand that authors tend to have a cognitive bias... where they might assume what they narrate reflects their thoughts (including me). However, readers may provide different interpretations.

Therefore, this is where measuring immersion, especially regarding scene visualization, is important so that the narrative can be written more accurate.

On the other hand, I do have a tendency to leave the details to the reader. So, in terms of visualization, it's closer to functional than aesthetic.

Ultimately... I should probably find the right balance between detail and choreography to narrate a better fight scene. Thank you for your feedback.

Best regards.

You're right. I may have depicted the flow of the scenes sequentially... but it's far from enough to achieve a cinematic visualization. Thank you for your feedback.
You can thanks the two published authors you quoted for their feedback by buying their books from Amazon.
 

Eldoria

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My biggest take away of this is the phrasing.

There is a gross overreliance on a singular type of sentence: "[name] does [something], [pronoun]'s [object] [verbed].

This sentence format accounts for a bulk of the prose.
Well, I appreciate your feedback. However, the analysis in this thread only addresses the visual aspects, specifically in the reader's mind.

I might analyze the prose and grammar in another thread if possible. Thank you for your feedback.
 
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