Opinion on romance in my story

[Worthy39]

I don't normally ask for opinions on this type of thing, but of all the aspects of my story, romance is by far my weakest point, and I was curious if this would actually make any sense, or just come off as disappointing in some way. This will technically count as spoilers, but since nobody to my knowledge in the forums reads my story anyway, it should be fine.

To skip over all the unnecessary details, basically the main character has a female best friend, who, for many reasons, couldn't really interact with many of her other friends or even people in general during the first major story arc, mostly just the protagonist. During this arc, the two got closer, but the main character started dating another character, and his best friend got jealous about. I intend on doing a part later where, now that she's finally free of the previous circumstances, she seeks mental help to deal with various issues, and while it was hinted that she may have romantic feelings for the protagonist in the first arc, during the second one, she starts to realize it was more a fear of being abandoned since the protagonist was basically the only person she had, not that she was in love with him.

So anyway, after that, she goes on to date someone else as well, the two are still friends, but don't spend as much time together, busy with other duties and their relationships. Since the two have been close for the majority of their lives, and had a somewhat unhealthy attachment to each other, this allows them both to grow more as people on their own. I won't bother going into the relationships both of them had with other people, but basically things don't work out, they were good together for a while, but long term it just wasn't going to work. Then, the two comfort each other during their respective breakups, and I was thinking about hinting at some potential real romantic interest growing between the two, and just kinda leave it at that for the main story with them staying friends, maybe do something with it in the final few chapters I plan on doing after the main story properly ends.

So, does this work, or is it just stupid? Figured I'd ask what people think before I commit to writing it, or if I should just stay in my lane and focus on the action.

 

[Wamba2K]

You should try it. I think it could be interesting.

 

[JordanIda]

Romance is a formula.

Every Harlequin Romance ever published has the same plot. The hundreds (thousands?) that followed the plot made a lot of money for Harlequin and for the authors as well. The ones that deviated didn't get published. Don't bother reading them to see this. Read the book they're all based on. Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

Or if Jane Austen is too literary, with its big paragraphs and walls of text (how times of changed, Jane Austen was once pop trash), then fall back on YT and read Twilight and New Moon. That's Pride and Prejudice again. With vampires and feral dogs.

Or if reading sounds like too much work, go to the formula and how it works for Hollywood. The blockbuster romances on the silver screen? All based on Pride and Prejudice. Rent a bunch of Meg Ryan movies. Her production company had it down cold. French Kiss. When Harry Met Sally. Sleepless in Seattle. Or, if RomCom makes you gag, try Clueless. (RomCom, cleverly disguised as mindless drivel, yet it's deceptively sophisticated beneath the sheets: Clueless is another blatant Jane Austen ripoff. From Emma, I believe.) Or if you want drama in your romance, get yourself a box of tissues and watch Titanic for a few hours. Gender flips, sure (true of much of Meg Ryan's trash, too), but it's still Pride and Prejudice.

Basically, whatever tangles and twists and confusement you inject into it, as you struggle to make it a totally original and unique story, all that extra stuff means nothing whatsoever and has no bearing on whether it works. As long as the skeleton that holds it all up is.... drumroll... Pride and Prejudice.

 

[Worthy39]

Romance is a formula.

Every Harlequin Romance ever published has the same plot. The hundreds (thousands?) that followed the plot made a lot of money for Harlequin and for the authors as well. The ones that deviated didn't get published. Don't bother reading them to see this. Read the book they're all based on. Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

Or if Jane Austen is too literary, with its big paragraphs and walls of text (how times of changed, Jane Austen was once pop trash), then fall back on YT and read Twilight and New Moon. That's Pride and Prejudice again. With vampires and feral dogs.

Or if reading sounds like too much work, go to the formula and how it works for Hollywood. The blockbuster romances on the silver screen? All based on Pride and Prejudice. Rent a bunch of Meg Ryan movies. Her production company had it down cold. French Kiss. When Harry Met Sally. Sleepless in Seattle. Or, if RomCom makes you gag, try Clueless. (RomCom, cleverly disguised as mindless drivel, yet it's deceptively sophisticated beneath the sheets: Clueless is another blatant Jane Austen ripoff. From Emma, I believe.) Or if you want drama in your romance, get yourself a box of tissues and watch Titanic for a few hours. Gender flips, sure (true of much of Meg Ryan's trash, too), but it's still Pride and Prejudice.

Basically, whatever tangles and twists and confusement you inject into it, as you struggle to make it a totally original and unique story, all that extra stuff means nothing whatsoever and has no bearing on whether it works. As long as the skeleton that holds it all up is.... drumroll... Pride and Prejudice.

Hm... I feel like you're a pride and prejudice fan... but I can't put my finger on why I think that.

 

[pangmida]

Then, the two comfort each other during their respective breakups, and I was thinking about hinting at some potential real romantic interest growing between the two, and just kinda leave it at that for the main story with them staying friends, maybe do something with it in the final few chapters I plan on doing after the main story properly ends.

After all of that development, I kind of like them being platonic soulmates. They don’t have to be romantic with each other, just irreplaceable best friends. It feels satisfying after they get over their unhealthy attachment to each other, especially on the FL’s side.

 

[Worthy39]

After all of that development, I kind of like them being platonic soulmates. They don’t have to be romantic with each other, just irreplaceable best friends. It feels satisfying after they get over their unhealthy attachment to each other, especially on the FL’s side.

Yeah, that's the part I wasn't sure about. Part of me felt the same way, but when I first started writing it, I did intend to put those two together. So I'll definitely keep that in mind, but it's really just going to depend on how things go up until then. I'm one of those writers who lets chapters write themselves when I'm not entirely sure what to do, so it'll come down to how their interactions in those chapters go, I guess.

 

[JordanIda]

Hm... I feel like you're a pride and prejudice fan... but I can't put my finger on why I think that.

ROFL!

No actually I don't love it. It's just that it's really true. That was kind of a seminal/pivotal novel that pretty much created the escapist Romance genre. Similar to the way Twilight reformulated the genre for young teens. (Another book I don't much care for.)

P&P is okay, but if I'm going to read Austen, I much prefer Sense and Sensibility. And if I'm going to read from that era, I'd rather go with E.M. Forster (Room with a View). which pretty much created the Romantic Comedy genre. (Sucker for RomCom.)

To see what works and what doesn't and why, it's helpful to know where all the successful formulas come from.

For instance: love triangles. It's easier to do MMF love triangles than FFM love triangles. Very difficult to pull off the latter and make it work for the reader. It's been tried and tried and tried. Mixed success at best. MMF is easier by far. Triangles are almost always MMF, going all the way back to the 19th century, and it's still true to this day. (Meg Ryan movies are often the exception, because the main actress herself is the primary draw.) There are reasons why FFM seldom ever works. Fascinating subject. Could spend hours on that aspect alone.

After all of that development, I kind of like them being platonic soulmates. They don’t have to be romantic with each other, just irreplaceable best friends. It feels satisfying after they get over their unhealthy attachment to each other, especially on the FL’s side.

LOL, still laughing. See what I mean? You guys really gotta watch When Harry Met Sally, if you do nothing else.

Best friends don't work. There's a reason why. It's covered in When Harry Met Sally. In the movie, Harry explains this to Sally. Men and women can't be best friends. Because the man will want to do her. So Sally gets all indignant and says, Okay, is it possible for a man to be best friends with a girl who isn't pretty. Harry says no. That doesn't work, either. Because men pretty much want to bang everyone.

If you guys are going to write Romances, you need to know this stuff.

 

[Makimaam]

It can work but with nuance. You need to scatter subtle hints throughout the entire story to make it believable, to make it feel earnt and not like something that comes out of nowhere right at the end where readers just think, huh, that’s lazy.

Think of that kind of love as standing on the sand while waves lap over your feet. You feel the coolness brushing your skin, but you soon grow used to it because it’s too gentle, because it becomes familiar like it has always been there. Then one moment you look down and suddenly you are knee-deep in the water as the tide rises. If that is the kind of love your story is meant to portray, you cannot just show the tide. You have to show those gentle waves too.

 

[Worthy39]

It can work but with nuance. You need to scatter subtle hints throughout the entire story to make it believable, to make it feel earnt and not like something that comes out of nowhere right at the end where readers just think, huh, that’s lazy.

Think of that kind of love as standing on the sand while waves lap over your feet. You feel the coolness brushing your skin, but you soon grow used to it because it’s too gentle, because it becomes familiar like it has always been there. Then one moment you look down and suddenly you are knee-deep in the water as the tide rises. If that is the kind of love your story is meant to portray, you cannot just show the tide. You have to show those gentle waves too.

Yeah, I planned to be a lot more subtle with it. But considering just the broad concept was a small essay, I figured I'd just leave it at that for the basic description of the plan.

 

[MFontana]

I don't normally ask for opinions on this type of thing, but of all the aspects of my story, romance is by far my weakest point, and I was curious if this would actually make any sense, or just come off as disappointing in some way. This will technically count as spoilers, but since nobody to my knowledge in the forums reads my story anyway, it should be fine.

To skip over all the unnecessary details, basically the main character has a female best friend, who, for many reasons, couldn't really interact with many of her other friends or even people in general during the first major story arc, mostly just the protagonist. During this arc, the two got closer, but the main character started dating another character, and his best friend got jealous about. I intend on doing a part later where, now that she's finally free of the previous circumstances, she seeks mental help to deal with various issues, and while it was hinted that she may have romantic feelings for the protagonist in the first arc, during the second one, she starts to realize it was more a fear of being abandoned since the protagonist was basically the only person she had, not that she was in love with him.

So anyway, after that, she goes on to date someone else as well, the two are still friends, but don't spend as much time together, busy with other duties and their relationships. Since the two have been close for the majority of their lives, and had a somewhat unhealthy attachment to each other, this allows them both to grow more as people on their own. I won't bother going into the relationships both of them had with other people, but basically things don't work out, they were good together for a while, but long term it just wasn't going to work. Then, the two comfort each other during their respective breakups, and I was thinking about hinting at some potential real romantic interest growing between the two, and just kinda leave it at that for the main story with them staying friends, maybe do something with it in the final few chapters I plan on doing after the main story properly ends.

So, does this work, or is it just stupid? Figured I'd ask what people think before I commit to writing it, or if I should just stay in my lane and focus on the action.

Honestly, it seems like you've already got a pretty good idea for what you want to do, so I'd say do it.
You're gonna end up pissing someone off no matter what you decide to do, so the best advice I can offer is to not waste time worrying about it, and do what you think works for the story you want to tell.

Personally, I'd say go with what you've already mentioned wanting to do. It will work for some people even if it doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. No creative decision, nor expression, will work for everyone. What matters is whether it works for you, and your target audience.

As for what I'd personally do based on everything there, I'd keep them friends. You've got a very solid case for it in everything that you've shared, and (unless you're writing a Romance novel) the romance isn't necessary. That said, my opinion is just that. An opinion. You can take it, or leave it, and your story will be fine.

Ultimately, this decision comes down to one thing, and one thing only. What do you want to do?

Beyond that, it's just a matter of execution. Keep whatever course you take within the lines of what each of the characters involved would reasonably do, or decide, and you'll be fine.

For the romance, you'll definitely want to sprinkle bits of interactions between the characters that lay the groundwork for the later romance. Tease the payoff you want. Lingering touches and glances. A few 'near kisses' perhaps, and lots of shared screentime where the characters are 'forced' into proximity with one-another.

For the platonic side, just don't lay the groundwork for a romance between them, and keep their interactions platonic, casual, or friendly, and limit their shared screentime (in close proximity).

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Well-written, any sort of romance side plot can strengthen virtually any story.
Badly written, it can tank just about any story.
So... go for it, and don't suck... :D

 

[Worthy39]

Well-written, any sort of romance side plot can strengthen virtually any story.
Badly written, it can tank just about any story.
So... go for it, and don't suck... :D

Such words of encouragement. Truly a motivational speech of all time.

 

[corruption]

Writing that she had been interested in the MC due to abandonment issues, and then hinting they get romantically closer during their breakups (possibly seen by her as a form of abandonment by her boyfriend and proxy for the MC) has me thinking them getting together could be them going down that path, with her seriously regressing and him joining/indulging her.
Maybe if they had outgrown that issue, and grown as people, then once they had grown independently as people they might get together.

Romance is a formula.

Every Harlequin Romance ever published has the same plot. The hundreds (thousands?) that followed the plot made a lot of money for Harlequin and for the authors as well. The ones that deviated didn't get published. Don't bother reading them to see this. Read the book they're all based on. Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

Or if Jane Austen is too literary, with its big paragraphs and walls of text (how times of changed, Jane Austen was once pop trash), then fall back on YT and read Twilight and New Moon. That's Pride and Prejudice again. With vampires and feral dogs.

Or if reading sounds like too much work, go to the formula and how it works for Hollywood. The blockbuster romances on the silver screen? All based on Pride and Prejudice. Rent a bunch of Meg Ryan movies. Her production company had it down cold. French Kiss. When Harry Met Sally. Sleepless in Seattle. Or, if RomCom makes you gag, try Clueless. (RomCom, cleverly disguised as mindless drivel, yet it's deceptively sophisticated beneath the sheets: Clueless is another blatant Jane Austen ripoff. From Emma, I believe.) Or if you want drama in your romance, get yourself a box of tissues and watch Titanic for a few hours. Gender flips, sure (true of much of Meg Ryan's trash, too), but it's still Pride and Prejudice.

Basically, whatever tangles and twists and confusement you inject into it, as you struggle to make it a totally original and unique story, all that extra stuff means nothing whatsoever and has no bearing on whether it works. As long as the skeleton that holds it all up is.... drumroll... Pride and Prejudice.

I disagree that Romance is a formula. I have seen it done many ways in stories, and in life.
Oh, Harlequin as well as Mills and Boon and the others do follow that formula, and I hear it often involves a lot of sex. I've heard it described by a woman in her 70's as containing more sex and more graphic than penthouse letters. And that's not even getting to the ones labeled as spicy romances!
I wish I was joking.

 

[JordanIda]

The situations change. Not the formula.

There are not many stories. Only a few, when it comes to it.

Sort of like words. How many words are there in the English language. 70,000? 80,000? The answer would surprise many. Word roots, traced back through their etymologies to their origins: only a few hundred. Some have said less than 300.

We don't have much to say. Few words. Even fewer stories.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Romance is a formula.

Every Harlequin Romance ever published has the same plot. The hundreds (thousands?) that followed the plot made a lot of money for Harlequin and for the authors as well. The ones that deviated didn't get published. Don't bother reading them to see this. Read the book they're all based on. Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

As a guy married to a woman with a decent collection of Harlequin Romances that I read about a dozen of out of morbid curiosity - this is not QUITE true.
They have FOUR plots that keep having settings cycle through (and, there are some "legacy stories" that add an over-arching plot that runs through several stories ... each sub story having one of said four plots):
1) People who had a relationship grow sour in the past are brought back together by "chance" and sparks fly.
2) People who would never normally get together are brought together by accident or in a way they just don't recognize each other, and sparks fly (the Pride and Prejudice option).
3) Two people pretend to be in a relationship for financial or professional reasons and sparks fly.

Okay, so only three plots. But still not just one... :D The first two are from Austen I believe, but I haven't read the book plot 1 came from. Unless you just split Pride and Prejudice into two separate stories, and have the first meeting of Lord Darcy and what'shername happen off screen. #3 is a modern take on Wuthering Heights I believe (Bronte sisters, was that?).

And on the sex front - unless things changed since the last time she bought any (90s), the Spicy ones (judging by the sole example my wife has) pretty much ARE Penthouse Forum but with one of those three plots driving the repeated encounter. The other ones are a bit more modest but only a bit.

 

[JordanIda]

Interesting, Charles! You say there are four, and you've outlined three, but I get your point. :D And at that level of granularity, there might even be five or six. But I'd chalk them up once again to situations which all collapse when sufficiently decomposed.

There's a great series on Apple TV, called Severance. A middle manager named Milchik learns in his performance review that he has been accused by coworkers of using big words, and too many. So later in the episode, we see him practicing at a mirror. To use smaller words, and fewer of them. He begins with, "You must eradicate your essence, childish folly." He gradually collapses it down to just one word, which he spits at the mirror: "Grow."

Love stories can be similarly decomposed, with all the extraneous situational trappings gradually excised, until they are reduced to their skeletal essence. (How's that for a Milchikian sentence?!) Point is, even Pride and Prejudice is similarly burdened. Its crucible, a harsh reality for British women in Jane Austen's era, was the absence of female entitlement, coupled with the tendency in the agrarian land-owning classes toward large families (cheap labor), which together conspired to make marrying children off a primary obsession for the parents. And for families with an excess of daughters, this drive became a nightmare, to the point of desperation and permissiveness toward dumping young teens on old lechers, just to have one less mouth to feed.

Strip all of that away, decompose it to its primal essence, and what's left might resemble beasts in a field, selecting strength. What is attraction, after all? What is love? What are they, when all the trappings are stripped away? Reduce us to our essence, and there is not much. We are the one animal that knows it will die. Not much more than that.

 

[Peagreene]

Best friends don't work. There's a reason why. It's covered in When Harry Met Sally. In the movie, Harry explains this to Sally. Men and women can't be best friends. Because the man will want to do her. So Sally gets all indignant and says, Okay, is it possible for a man to be best friends with a girl who isn't pretty. Harry says no. That doesn't work, either. Because men pretty much want to bang everyone.

This is why I fucking hate When Harry Met Sally.

 

[Worthy39]

This is why I fucking hate When Harry Met Sally.

I disagree with it, personally. I have a close female friend, and while obviously people think about it, the real issue comes from forcing yourself. Humans are simple creatures, you tell us not to do something, and most of us immediately want to do whatever that thing we can't do is, so telling yourself "we're just friends" can sometimes just be you using reverse psychology on yourself. For me, I just let whatever happens, happen. I don't tell myself the whole "just friends" thing, if I ever do develop feelings, I'm honest, but so far, that mindset has helped me maintain quite a few friendships with the opposite gender, only one I ever developed feelings for. Attraction happens, but as long as you're thinking more with your head than your genitals, I think it's more than possible to maintain a friendship between a boy and a girl.

 

[Peagreene]

I disagree with it, personally. I have a close female friend, and while obviously people think about it, the real issue comes from forcing yourself. Humans are simple creatures, you tell us not to do something, and most of us immediately want to do whatever that thing we can't do is, so telling yourself "we're just friends" can sometimes just be you using reverse psychology on yourself. For me, I just let whatever happens, happen. I don't tell myself the whole "just friends" thing, if I ever do develop feelings, I'm honest, but so far, that mindset has helped me maintain quite a few friendships with the opposite gender, only one I ever developed feelings for. Attraction happens, but as long as you're thinking more with your head than your genitals, I think it's more than possible to maintain a friendship between a boy and a girl.

Exactly. It's degrading to both parties to think that friendship can't happen. I could go on a whole soapbox rant about how our society doesn't value friendship in the way it values romance, but tldr; it's real shitty to talk about being "just friends" like friendship is a consolation prize that isn't as meaningful as romance.

 

[JordanIda]

You guys are funny.

Two things. First, blame Harry. Don't shoot the messenger.

Second, Harry's right. (Go ahead, shoot the messenger.) There's a Romance genre. There's not a "Just Friends" genre.

(Easy, I'm messing around.)

Friends are great. Sure. But I'm trying to think of a book I curled up around and really loved, that was about just friends. I honestly can't think of one. I'm always like, "When are you guys gonna fuck, already?!?!"

I dunno. Maybe it's me.

Actually, ok. Now I'm really being serious. Maybe this is why, as far as Jane Austen, I prefer Sense and Sensibility over Pride and Prejudice. Because, in Sense and Sensibility, Elinor is all about appearances and propriety, and she maintains cordial, rigid friendship with Edward Ferrars through most of the book while at the same time castigating Mariane for her unrestrained libido, caprice, and flights of passion. And the friendship between Elinor and Edward is all very sweet and quite beautiful in its own way, and it is seemingly enough for them... until it isn't. And the reason we still read the book and love it today is that it's all the more beautiful when the friendship turns into something much more, and Elinor and Edward realize that they've been pining for each other all along. The takeaway: if Elinor and Edward had remained friends all the way to the end, no one would know the book today. The book is still read today, and it's great, because they transcended their friendship.