Target Audience, Cult Followings, and the Problem in Mainstream Entertainment

[Tyranomaster]

So today, I received a 1-star review here on scribblehub. While it bothers me at the monkey brain level of my brain, fundamentally I'm not concerned too much by it. The person had a fairly well thought out commentary. What it did for me, however, was gather my thoughts around "Target Audience, Cult Followings, and the Problem in Mainstream Entertainment".

The story generally features Kingdom Building, diving into the nitty gritty of how the world works. How to not only survive, but thrive in a situation with limited resources, while still maintaining a fantasy magic system.

So, let me start with the basic bullet points of their review, because it helps illustrate the point I'm going to make.

• They dislike the format the story is told in (A first person record written by the individual. Something like reading a research journal.)
• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like that the magic system is intuitive and easy to understand.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.
• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

Now, let me say first and foremost, their points are valid to them, and rightly so. In fact, I'd argue the MAJORITY of all readers agree with them. Yet I've hit #1 trending with the story, and maintain a respectable 4.5/5 rating, with 5/5 reviews, patrons, and an avid reader base on scribble and royalroad. However, they aren't alone, and I've received similar reviews on Royal Road.

This brings us to the first topic: Target Audience

Would it surprise you if I said this person isn't my target audience? In fact, I tried writing some side-stories that somewhat address their concerns (which people can read on my patreon, but I'm not writing them anymore, so it's limited, and I've basically decided to scrap them entirely from the final product.). So, who makes up my target audience, and the people who are my avid readers? They're people like me, who generally enjoy system novels, or kingdom building novels, but who hate that almost every system novel or kingdom building novel transitions out of the genre somewhere in the middle. Let me ask, how many system novels have you read where at some point, the numbers no longer matter, and it's all made up fantasy? Or how many kingdom building novels (I'm looking at you slime, and goblin kingdom), where everything devolves into politics and interpersonal relationships, and the kingdom is an afterthought. The discussion of the kingdom disappears and becomes just general discussions.

In fact, while I've read dozens of kingdom building novels, I don't believe I've ever gotten further than the fifth or sixth volume in any of them, because they ceased being a kingdom builder. My target audience are specifically people who DON'T want exactly what this reviewer has asked for. In fact, I once got a very pissed off comment (which has been deleted by the commenter on RR) who was basically pissed off that they thought this novel would go down exactly that path when I introduced a new character.

Now, the meaty topic: Cult Followings and the Problem of Mainstream Entertainment

So, what makes a cult following? Well, it's generally people really dedicated (like a cult) to something. However, it goes a little beyond that. It usually only applies to something not mainstream. For example, people don't say that Taylor Swift has a Cult Following, although you could say that she has a Cult of Personality around her. So, when used as lingo, it's generally referring to something that has a small subgroup of people who really enjoy it, and the larger population doesn't understand it. There are plenty of genres that fit this category. Yaoi is a great example. You want to know what else used to fit this category about fifteen years ago? That's right, Isekai.

How about we go through some examples in other media as well: Rick and Morty, Smiling Friends, The Room, Pulp Fiction, Mystery Science Theater 3000, Dungeons and Dragons, and Warhammer 40k.

Now, many of you will perhaps argue about some of these. For example, does Rick and Morty really have a cult following? The answer is no, not anymore. But when it started airing it did. Somewhere around season 3 though, there was a transition that most people agree on. What happened? It's actually able to be illustrated by that 1-star review. The MAJORITY of all available audience actually just wants more of what they already know, but with a slightly new face stuck on it. They didn't want the dirty and weird Rick and Morty from season 1. They wanted Funny and Rude Bill Nye in a Sci-Fi setting. So the writing team decided to "reach out" to the larger audience. It worked, they expanded the audience, but the show lost it's soul (in my opinion at least). It lost what made it unique, and became a bland copy of a million other shows. In fact, I barely remember much of Rick and Morty any more, and I used to tune in to watch episodes premier.

Next, Smiling Friends. Another Adult Swim show (notice a pattern?). While it's still young at only 2 seasons, it's reaching the point where Zach Hadel and Michael Cusack are probably receiving pressure to broaden the audience, and do a similar thing to Rick and Morty. Now, given their episode that was basically a meta commentary on this very subject, I doubt they will, but it's hard to say.

I don't want to rant about each of these, so to summarize. Serialized TV shows are similar to books, in that as they're written, feedback can change the nature of the story that got you a large following in the first place, but it doesn't have to if you're cognizant of that influence. Movies and one-shot novels are generally immune to this, since they're already finished when they're viewed. The board game/ttrpg space has also been falling victim to audience creep recently.

The Takeaway

In short, no matter what medium of entertainment you make, you're audience will always be only a small fraction of all potential audience members. It's important to know what your target audience is, so you don't alienate the people who actually consume your work because a vocal group wants you to change it to fit their tastes. There is a difference between improving the story and changing it. Maybe, initially, you don't know what your story will be. By the end of your first volume (50k words), you should evaluate, and determine your audience, so you don't alienate them. It helps guide your writing moving forward. Play into your own tropes, not other stories.

Allow me to use that 1-star review one last time to demonstrate.

• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.

These two points are contradictory within the framework of the kind of story I'm attempting to convey (and that my 1500 or so active readers actually read for). They like the current pace, but also want more conversation and relationship building. That necessarily requires 1 of 2 things. Either the pace slows to add in more relationship building, or the very nature of the story has to change, and the focus shifts away from kingdom building to relationships in order to keep the pace (The very thing I set out to NOT do when I started writing this story). To iterate the point finally, their last point:

• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

They are, by every definition here saying, "Hey, I'd rather actually read these other stories, with your story as a skin overtop them". They're welcome to continue reading the stories they like, and they're also welcome to have their opinions on mine, but I won't be changing my story, and betraying my target audience in favor of producing more slop for the masses.

Thank you and have a good day.

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

I'm sorry if my comment is brief and doesn't add much to your interesting post, but it makes me smile that we writers all have a similar reaction to bad reviews, negative comments, or 1-star ratings.

Some random dude, without much thought nor care, can harm us with a click, while we end up racking our brains, overthinking, trying to figure out why, how we can improve, where we went wrong, the system is flawed, etc.

In the end, there's nothing we can do but accept it. But I understand what you mean, I feel you, my friend.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I'm not even really upset by it, since I already have a large enough following that it doesn't matter. Even less so since this is a topic that I've thought about many times before, but hadn't really bothered to put on paper before. However, I think writing this is meant to help inoculate other writers against accidentally corrupting their own work to the point of failure.

 

[2wordsperminute]

I lost a lot of willingness to hear you out as soon as you said politics wasn't part of building a kingdom.

 

[Lloyd]

Fuck the readers

 

[EliseValkyria]

This reminds me of the "boisterous minority" effect that I have suffered constantly.

In short, about three readers complaining in all of the first 20 chapters about how they didn't like my novel because of the novel being a Harem. Even though such a thing was the main focus of the whole story and characters, there is simply no way to negotiate with them, for them Haren is bad and should be wiped off the face of the earth, because with that Tag alone your novel is complete garbage.

The funny thing is that it was always the same three hate readers, the other 500 who enjoy it just read quietly and leave.

So there will always be that problem of external pressure to change your story to something they, and only they, want. The hard part is recognizing if they are just 3 very loud readers who will stop reading your novel anyway, or if they really are the legitimate readers showing their opinions.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Huh?

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Wha?

 

[RepresentingDesire]

Let me ask, how many system novels have you read where at some point, the numbers no longer matter, and it's all made up fantasy?

I read some and one of them is a favorite novel of mine. The book discarded (or rather had never in the first place) the idea that the numbers are important, so the system was nothing but a background to the characters, which was of my liking because the characters were what mattered to me. My favorite power systems are those that let the character shape their own power even if the vice-versa can be entertaining, the books where no such dynamic exist are in my opinion inferior but this is probably just the desire for synergy. This shows just that there are other options in audience.

Next, Smiling Friends. Another Adult Swim show (notice a pattern?). While it's still young at only 2 seasons, it's reaching the point where Zach Hadel and Michael Cusack are probably receiving pressure to broaden the audience, and do a similar thing to Rick and Morty. Now, given their episode that was basically a meta commentary on this very subject, I doubt they will, but it's hard to say.

That's scary.

Serialized TV shows are similar to books, in that as they're written, feedback can change the nature of the story that got you a large following in the first place, but it doesn't have to if you're cognizant of that influence.

I heard about many shows and films that changed the plot twist and stop because some viewers predict it.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I lost a lot of willingness to hear you out as soon as you said politics wasn't part of building a kingdom.

There is politics, but if all you're doing is talking politics, then you aren't actually building a kingdom, you're just conveying that someone else is building a kingdom, and you'll give general updates. American politics is filled with talkers who do nothing, and I hate it. People want actual kingdom building, focusing on the fact you need clean water and infrastructure. The nearest I've read to meeting this goal is something like How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom, but even then you end up diving into relationship building and skipping over actual details. Again, my focus was exactly the details, and I've got readers to show for it.

Most people just prefer to hear other people talk, and it's a subset of people who want just ideas. I'm catering to the subset, not the majority.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

It's smart of you to call yourself out on this, and say you got hurt by a review, kinda makes it impossible for other peeps to say it... But I will say it anyway. That smells of a lot of copium and you being super sour. I am not addressing your takes, whether I agree or not. I'm saying overall message gives me impression that you are butthurt, and this 1-star review offended you a lot more than you try to portray it.

I am probably the only person on this forum who thinks like that, so I don't know. Get well soon?

 

[Deleted member 84247]

It's pretty fascinating. I agree with many of the things said, but I am not sure on others. I do believe that vocal audiences can do more harm than good. Most of your audience is simply not vocal. No matter who you are, it doesn't matter. 95 percent of your audience are shutting up. When you start listening to commenters, you are pleasing 5 percent that may or may not agree with the other 95 percent.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Have not read your story so maybe off base here but it seems like it would be possible to do some aspects of kingdom building as discussions between characters (especially if the MC/narrator is overhearing discussions that are relevant to current issues being faced). Now, again just talking in general (and I doubt "kingdom building" would be "my thing" unless it was also "GameLit" or LitRPG with mechanics I could possibly pull out into tabletop games), but without conversations going on, it could easily feel more like an "info dump" rather than a story.

Then again, you have things like Dracula - a classic novel that is all told in journal entries, so there is more "world" and "atmosphere" building than there is character interaction, and that has persisted for well over 100 years...

 

[T.K._Paradox]

So today, I received a 1-star review here on scribblehub. While it bothers me at the monkey brain level of my brain, fundamentally I'm not concerned too much by it. The person had a fairly well thought out commentary. What it did for me, however, was gather my thoughts around "Target Audience, Cult Followings, and the Problem in Mainstream Entertainment".

The story generally features Kingdom Building, diving into the nitty gritty of how the world works. How to not only survive, but thrive in a situation with limited resources, while still maintaining a fantasy magic system.

So, let me start with the basic bullet points of their review, because it helps illustrate the point I'm going to make.

• They dislike the format the story is told in (A first person record written by the individual. Something like reading a research journal.)
• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like that the magic system is intuitive and easy to understand.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.
• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

Now, let me say first and foremost, their points are valid to them, and rightly so. In fact, I'd argue the MAJORITY of all readers agree with them. Yet I've hit #1 trending with the story, and maintain a respectable 4.5/5 rating, with 5/5 reviews, patrons, and an avid reader base on scribble and royalroad. However, they aren't alone, and I've received similar reviews on Royal Road.

This brings us to the first topic: Target Audience

Would it surprise you if I said this person isn't my target audience? In fact, I tried writing some side-stories that somewhat address their concerns (which people can read on my patreon, but I'm not writing them anymore, so it's limited, and I've basically decided to scrap them entirely from the final product.). So, who makes up my target audience, and the people who are my avid readers? They're people like me, who generally enjoy system novels, or kingdom building novels, but who hate that almost every system novel or kingdom building novel transitions out of the genre somewhere in the middle. Let me ask, how many system novels have you read where at some point, the numbers no longer matter, and it's all made up fantasy? Or how many kingdom building novels (I'm looking at you slime, and goblin kingdom), where everything devolves into politics and interpersonal relationships, and the kingdom is an afterthought. The discussion of the kingdom disappears and becomes just general discussions.

In fact, while I've read dozens of kingdom building novels, I don't believe I've ever gotten further than the fifth or sixth volume in any of them, because they ceased being a kingdom builder. My target audience are specifically people who DON'T want exactly what this reviewer has asked for. In fact, I once got a very pissed off comment (which has been deleted by the commenter on RR) who was basically pissed off that they thought this novel would go down exactly that path when I introduced a new character.

Now, the meaty topic: Cult Followings and the Problem of Mainstream Entertainment

So, what makes a cult following? Well, it's generally people really dedicated (like a cult) to something. However, it goes a little beyond that. It usually only applies to something not mainstream. For example, people don't say that Taylor Swift has a Cult Following, although you could say that she has a Cult of Personality around her. So, when used as lingo, it's generally referring to something that has a small subgroup of people who really enjoy it, and the larger population doesn't understand it. There are plenty of genres that fit this category. Yaoi is a great example. You want to know what else used to fit this category about fifteen years ago? That's right, Isekai.

How about we go through some examples in other media as well: Rick and Morty, Smiling Friends, The Room, Pulp Fiction, Mystery Science Theater 3000, Dungeons and Dragons, and Warhammer 40k.

Now, many of you will perhaps argue about some of these. For example, does Rick and Morty really have a cult following? The answer is no, not anymore. But when it started airing it did. Somewhere around season 3 though, there was a transition that most people agree on. What happened? It's actually able to be illustrated by that 1-star review. The MAJORITY of all available audience actually just wants more of what they already know, but with a slightly new face stuck on it. They didn't want the dirty and weird Rick and Morty from season 1. They wanted Funny and Rude Bill Nye in a Sci-Fi setting. So the writing team decided to "reach out" to the larger audience. It worked, they expanded the audience, but the show lost it's soul (in my opinion at least). It lost what made it unique, and became a bland copy of a million other shows. In fact, I barely remember much of Rick and Morty any more, and I used to tune in to watch episodes premier.

Next, Smiling Friends. Another Adult Swim show (notice a pattern?). While it's still young at only 2 seasons, it's reaching the point where Zach Hadel and Michael Cusack are probably receiving pressure to broaden the audience, and do a similar thing to Rick and Morty. Now, given their episode that was basically a meta commentary on this very subject, I doubt they will, but it's hard to say.

I don't want to rant about each of these, so to summarize. Serialized TV shows are similar to books, in that as they're written, feedback can change the nature of the story that got you a large following in the first place, but it doesn't have to if you're cognizant of that influence. Movies and one-shot novels are generally immune to this, since they're already finished when they're viewed. The board game/ttrpg space has also been falling victim to audience creep recently.

The Takeaway

In short, no matter what medium of entertainment you make, you're audience will always be only a small fraction of all potential audience members. It's important to know what your target audience is, so you don't alienate the people who actually consume your work because a vocal group wants you to change it to fit their tastes. There is a difference between improving the story and changing it. Maybe, initially, you don't know what your story will be. By the end of your first volume (50k words), you should evaluate, and determine your audience, so you don't alienate them. It helps guide your writing moving forward. Play into your own tropes, not other stories.

Allow me to use that 1-star review one last time to demonstrate.

• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.

These two points are contradictory within the framework of the kind of story I'm attempting to convey (and that my 1500 or so active readers actually read for). They like the current pace, but also want more conversation and relationship building. That necessarily requires 1 of 2 things. Either the pace slows to add in more relationship building, or the very nature of the story has to change, and the focus shifts away from kingdom building to relationships in order to keep the pace (The very thing I set out to NOT do when I started writing this story). To iterate the point finally, their last point:

• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

They are, by every definition here saying, "Hey, I'd rather actually read these other stories, with your story as a skin overtop them". They're welcome to continue reading the stories they like, and they're also welcome to have their opinions on mine, but I won't be changing my story, and betraying my target audience in favor of producing more slop for the masses.

Thank you and have a good day.

So you've acknowledged that this person isn't your target audience and that you don't necessarily need to appeal to what's popular to post a story that you yourself like to write that's good.

However the fact you felt like you needed to justify yourself feels a bit strange? Just write what you want to write man.

I understand the passion behind making a project and how sensitive some can be to hearing the story they have been working on isn't appealing.

And the fact you posted this thread tells me you do care about what that person said, even if it's just a little.

All in all write for yourself not for others, and probably not your job so you don't have to, and those that see your art as the way you do will come to appreciate it.

So if you do manage to get some recognition you could possibly separate yourself from the second-rate isekai fantasy slop.

 

[NineHeadHeavenDevouringSerpent]

So today, I received a 1-star review here on scribblehub. While it bothers me at the monkey brain level of my brain, fundamentally I'm not concerned too much by it. The person had a fairly well thought out commentary. What it did for me, however, was gather my thoughts around "Target Audience, Cult Followings, and the Problem in Mainstream Entertainment".

The story generally features Kingdom Building, diving into the nitty gritty of how the world works. How to not only survive, but thrive in a situation with limited resources, while still maintaining a fantasy magic system.

So, let me start with the basic bullet points of their review, because it helps illustrate the point I'm going to make.

• They dislike the format the story is told in (A first person record written by the individual. Something like reading a research journal.)
• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like that the magic system is intuitive and easy to understand.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.
• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

Now, let me say first and foremost, their points are valid to them, and rightly so. In fact, I'd argue the MAJORITY of all readers agree with them. Yet I've hit #1 trending with the story, and maintain a respectable 4.5/5 rating, with 5/5 reviews, patrons, and an avid reader base on scribble and royalroad. However, they aren't alone, and I've received similar reviews on Royal Road.

This brings us to the first topic: Target Audience

Would it surprise you if I said this person isn't my target audience? In fact, I tried writing some side-stories that somewhat address their concerns (which people can read on my patreon, but I'm not writing them anymore, so it's limited, and I've basically decided to scrap them entirely from the final product.). So, who makes up my target audience, and the people who are my avid readers? They're people like me, who generally enjoy system novels, or kingdom building novels, but who hate that almost every system novel or kingdom building novel transitions out of the genre somewhere in the middle. Let me ask, how many system novels have you read where at some point, the numbers no longer matter, and it's all made up fantasy? Or how many kingdom building novels (I'm looking at you slime, and goblin kingdom), where everything devolves into politics and interpersonal relationships, and the kingdom is an afterthought. The discussion of the kingdom disappears and becomes just general discussions.

In fact, while I've read dozens of kingdom building novels, I don't believe I've ever gotten further than the fifth or sixth volume in any of them, because they ceased being a kingdom builder. My target audience are specifically people who DON'T want exactly what this reviewer has asked for. In fact, I once got a very pissed off comment (which has been deleted by the commenter on RR) who was basically pissed off that they thought this novel would go down exactly that path when I introduced a new character.

Now, the meaty topic: Cult Followings and the Problem of Mainstream Entertainment

So, what makes a cult following? Well, it's generally people really dedicated (like a cult) to something. However, it goes a little beyond that. It usually only applies to something not mainstream. For example, people don't say that Taylor Swift has a Cult Following, although you could say that she has a Cult of Personality around her. So, when used as lingo, it's generally referring to something that has a small subgroup of people who really enjoy it, and the larger population doesn't understand it. There are plenty of genres that fit this category. Yaoi is a great example. You want to know what else used to fit this category about fifteen years ago? That's right, Isekai.

How about we go through some examples in other media as well: Rick and Morty, Smiling Friends, The Room, Pulp Fiction, Mystery Science Theater 3000, Dungeons and Dragons, and Warhammer 40k.

Now, many of you will perhaps argue about some of these. For example, does Rick and Morty really have a cult following? The answer is no, not anymore. But when it started airing it did. Somewhere around season 3 though, there was a transition that most people agree on. What happened? It's actually able to be illustrated by that 1-star review. The MAJORITY of all available audience actually just wants more of what they already know, but with a slightly new face stuck on it. They didn't want the dirty and weird Rick and Morty from season 1. They wanted Funny and Rude Bill Nye in a Sci-Fi setting. So the writing team decided to "reach out" to the larger audience. It worked, they expanded the audience, but the show lost it's soul (in my opinion at least). It lost what made it unique, and became a bland copy of a million other shows. In fact, I barely remember much of Rick and Morty any more, and I used to tune in to watch episodes premier.

Next, Smiling Friends. Another Adult Swim show (notice a pattern?). While it's still young at only 2 seasons, it's reaching the point where Zach Hadel and Michael Cusack are probably receiving pressure to broaden the audience, and do a similar thing to Rick and Morty. Now, given their episode that was basically a meta commentary on this very subject, I doubt they will, but it's hard to say.

I don't want to rant about each of these, so to summarize. Serialized TV shows are similar to books, in that as they're written, feedback can change the nature of the story that got you a large following in the first place, but it doesn't have to if you're cognizant of that influence. Movies and one-shot novels are generally immune to this, since they're already finished when they're viewed. The board game/ttrpg space has also been falling victim to audience creep recently.

The Takeaway

In short, no matter what medium of entertainment you make, you're audience will always be only a small fraction of all potential audience members. It's important to know what your target audience is, so you don't alienate the people who actually consume your work because a vocal group wants you to change it to fit their tastes. There is a difference between improving the story and changing it. Maybe, initially, you don't know what your story will be. By the end of your first volume (50k words), you should evaluate, and determine your audience, so you don't alienate them. It helps guide your writing moving forward. Play into your own tropes, not other stories.

Allow me to use that 1-star review one last time to demonstrate.

• They dislike the lack of conversation and intercharacter relationship building.
• They like the world building and the pace that the story keeps, but wishes there were more conversational meat to the story.

These two points are contradictory within the framework of the kind of story I'm attempting to convey (and that my 1500 or so active readers actually read for). They like the current pace, but also want more conversation and relationship building. That necessarily requires 1 of 2 things. Either the pace slows to add in more relationship building, or the very nature of the story has to change, and the focus shifts away from kingdom building to relationships in order to keep the pace (The very thing I set out to NOT do when I started writing this story). To iterate the point finally, their last point:

• They recommended that I, as the author, go and research conversations in (X,Y,Z novel, or just go find other conversation driven stories) ("As it stands, the perspective makes it feel as if I am being beaten over the head with things happening and time passing, without having any conversations.")

They are, by every definition here saying, "Hey, I'd rather actually read these other stories, with your story as a skin overtop them". They're welcome to continue reading the stories they like, and they're also welcome to have their opinions on mine, but I won't be changing my story, and betraying my target audience in favor of producing more slop for the masses.

Thank you and have a good day.

Feels like your ego is coming inbetween your rational judgement here. For one, this post comes of as a rant more than an advisory to other authors. Two, making a subtle them vs us is quite vile, they have taken their moment in time to consume your content that you wanted people to read, a feedback (lacking or otherwise) is a boon meant to be taken in gratitude. Whether they like it or not, it's not right to have an "read something else if you don't like, don't bark here" attitude. This is the kind of mentality that will alienate genres from each other and make it a mindless "cult" that obsesses just for the sake of it without any criticism.

Please take a moment and reflect what you would feel if an author of a book you criticized told you to "shut up and get lost moron"

Anyways, good day to you too.

nor care

Wrong. The very fact they felt concerned enough to leave a review behind shows they care. You've misinterpret that caring should always be positive, they care that the time they spent reading it was wasted, they care that the story that they felt invested in betrayed them at some point.

 

[Keene]

I always think the best reviewers are people who:

1) Can put their own preferences (mostly) aside and review the novel for what it's trying to be. For example, I'm not a huge fan of 1st person, but I won't criticise a novel for choosing that POV. I don't like or read BL, but if I read a BL novel I'm never going to give it a one star review because "wtf this novel would be amazing without BL". Review the novel for what the author is trying to make it, and not because it doesn't satisfy your personal vision of a perfect piece of literature.

There is an exception to this, and it's when the reviewer truly believes the POV chosen is holding the novel back and harming the story in a demonstrable way. Sometimes a POV challenge can be very constructive and cause the writer grow.

2) Don't slam a review down to 1 star because of a single problem they have with the novel while the other twenty things are good or acceptable.

Unfortunately, there will always be problematic reviewers, and eventually, if given enough time, every novel will encounter at least one.

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

Wrong. The very fact they felt concerned enough to leave a review behind shows they care. You've misinterpret that caring should always be positive, they care that the time they spent reading it was wasted, they care that the story that they felt invested in betrayed them at some point.

I disagree, but you're free to think that way. I reiterate that there's not much thought or care involved most of the time; it's just a desire to feel special. The precious time they waste would be spent scrolling through social media anyway, at least reading exercises the brain.
Jokes aside, there's no comparison: writing a novel takes months, effort, and sacrifices. Reading a 1000-word chapter takes at most fifteen minutes, leaving a 1-star rating takes at most a second. They have the power to harm without any responsibility, and some individuals enjoy doing it.

It sucks, but we have to move on and ignore them, focusing instead on those who offer constructive criticism or appreciate the work.

 

[Tyranomaster]

It's smart of you to call yourself out on this, and say you got hurt by a review, kinda makes it impossible for other peeps to say it... But I will say it anyway. That smells of a lot of copium and you being super sour. I am not addressing your takes, whether I agree or not. I'm saying overall message gives me impression that you are butthurt, and this 1-star review offended you a lot more than you try to portray it.

I am, and have always, acknowledged that my novel won't be the next big hit, and am pleasantly surprised by how well it is doing. I've had 1-star reviews that actually hurt, and those made me huff copium. This one triggered the part of me that has been upset with mainstream entertainment for years. The comment itself is fine, but it highlights perfectly why so many shows and movies go to shit.

I understand the passion behind making a project and how sensitive some can be to hearing the story they have been working on isn't appealing.

It's far more appealing than I had ever expected it to be, so no, I'm not upset by that. I dreamed of having maybe a few hundred readers, and I've long surpassed that. This comment smells like someone who categorizes everyone immediately based on trigger phrases. Most people who complain about 1-star reviews here fit a certain bill, and you've stuffed me in that. Think what you will. Their review isn't actually the triggering part, it's the culture that ruins media that is the triggering part.

Feels like your ego is coming inbetween your rational judgement here. For one, this post comes of as a rant more than an advisory to other authors. Two, making a subtle them vs us is quite vile, they have taken their moment in time to consume your content that you wanted people to read, a feedback (lacking or otherwise) is a boon meant to be taken in gratitude. Whether they like it or not, it's not right to have an "read something else if you don't like, don't bark here" attitude. This is the kind of mentality that will alienate genres from each other and make it a mindless "cult" that obsesses just for the sake of it without any criticism.

Please take a moment and reflect what you would feel if an author of a book you criticized told you to "shut up and get lost moron"

Anyways, good day to you too.


Wrong. The very fact they felt concerned enough to leave a review behind shows they care. You've misinterpret that caring should always be positive, they care that the time they spent reading it was wasted, they care that the story that they felt invested in betrayed them at some point.

I've written an entire thread on proper handling of reviews and taking a positive look at them first, its even linked about occasionally. I also took the advice, analyzed it, and determined that this particular review fits into the "not applicable" category. I think you've misinterpreted the target of the post. Yes, it's a bit of a rant, but mostly against mainstream entertainment sterilizing everything for the lowest common denominator. It's a cautionary warning to other authors who may not realize that this sort of thing can influence them in ways that are detrimental.

Unfortunately, there will always be problematic reviewers, and eventually, if given enough time, every novel will encounter at least one.

This review isn't even problematic. They're opinion is valid and fine. The review is well thought out and good. That was the point of my post. It's that even good, well thought out reviews can sometimes be invalid. In fact, sometimes well thought out reviews can be detrimental to listen to. Why is it that the Audience and Critic scores are so different anymore on rotten tomatoes? It's a similar issue. The critics want something that the target audience doesn't. That's the whole point of my post.

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TL-DR: A lot of you seem to be reading my post as "Someone is butthurt they got a bad review." and not "The industry is failing because too many people take well thought out reviews to heart, and change their work to fit that." Woke seeps into everything because woke people complain the most, and people running businesses don't realize that their target audience who is generally quiet and has been consuming their product for decades actually hates woke culture. Then, once captured, woke media says, "This isn't for you.", which the original media wasn't for them, but they've now captured it, and decided to no longer be inclusive. Don't be inclusive if it goes against what you originally intended. The lowest common denominator watches nothing but TV soap operas and reality TV, and that is what I'm ranting about. If your book fails, then it fails, if it has an existing audience, don't betray them for a new audience, it's cowardly and lame.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I disagree, but you're free to think that way. I reiterate that there's not much thought or care involved most of the time; it's just a desire to feel special. The precious time they waste would be spent scrolling through social media anyway, at least reading exercises the brain.
Jokes aside, there's no comparison: writing a novel takes months, effort, and sacrifices. Reading a 1000-word chapter takes at most fifteen minutes, leaving a 1-star rating takes at most a second. They have the power to harm without any responsibility, and some individuals enjoy doing it.

It sucks, but we have to move on and ignore them, focusing instead on those who offer constructive criticism or appreciate the work.

Bruh.

I am, and have always, acknowledged that my novel won't be the next big hit, and am pleasantly surprised by how well it is doing. I've had 1-star reviews that actually hurt, and those made me huff copium. This one triggered the part of me that has been upset with mainstream entertainment for years. The comment itself is fine, but it highlights perfectly why so many shows and movies go to shit.

Nah, you huff copium at the moment, since you replied to my message, but didn't actually reply and tried to change the topic. It has nothing to do with getting triggered about mainstream entertainment, you got triggered because someone invalidated you, and now you seek validation from us. Not like you can't do it.

Anyway, you are butthurt my brother. And again, not like you can't do it, or I forbid you, or whatever. But yeah, don't try to pretend like it is something else. If you weren't butthurt, you would do it the same way you did your "How to gain readers" guide, and wouldn't make the thread literally the same day you got that review.

 

[Keene]

This review isn't even problematic. They're opinion is valid and fine. The review is well thought out and good.

This isn't really a hill I want to die on, but I think 'problematic' is a fitting word for the review - which I just read - that gives the lowest possible rating but as part of their conclusion, they say: All in all it was a decent read



Although, reading the review it looks like the user in question may have intended to give it a 3/5: The only reason I give it a 3 is for the love of the genre, and because of the disclaimer given in the blurb.

If that review had been a 3/5 would you have made this thread in the first place?