Opposing stats.

[NotaNuffian]

So... I don't see any other comparison other than Strength stat vs Speed stat(aka Dexterity, Agility, Reaction, Hand Eye, etc) and the ones that gave examples are the chinese.

Most of them all agree that Strength increase = bigger body because increased muscle mass.

Which by square-cube law where the strength of muscle is dependent on the cross-sectional area of the fiber while mass is density divided by volume. Meaning in actuality that while the person might be able to lift heavier mass due to them being heavier, their overall strength actually decreases...

Not the point, the point is that strength stat goes up, speed stat goes down because heavier.

Any other stories that explore this or are all works just "hee hee Superman~"

 

[Iamnotabot]

Ok, you sound stressed. have a meme

 

[APieceOfRock]

I think commonly in cultivation novels strength stats just mean how much shit you can punch. The body doesn't actually change (if it does, at best the person will become lean.)
Any overly muscular people in cultivations novels will be likely weaker because of the law you mentioned. That's why most MCs are lean and not muscular. Anyhow there's also some muscle men who looks down on MC because he looks scrawny or something

 

[NotaNuffian]

Ok, you sound stressed. have a meme
View attachment 20836

Thanks.

It is but an image. But still thanks.

 

[melchi]

So... I don't see any other comparison other than Strength stat vs Speed stat(aka Dexterity, Agility, Reaction, Hand Eye, etc) and the ones that gave examples are the chinese.

Most of them all agree that Strength increase = bigger body because increased muscle mass.

Which by square-cube law where the strength of muscle is dependent on the cross-sectional area of the fiber while mass is density divided by volume. Meaning in actuality that while the person might be able to lift heavier mass due to them being heavier, their overall strength actually decreases...

Not the point, the point is that strength stat goes up, speed stat goes down because heavier.

Any other stories that explore this or are all works just "hee hee Superman~"

I think in the land this happens. The MC dumps a whole lot of points in strength while stuck in a cave with lots of monsters but then becomes big and less agile because of stat imbalance.

 

[Corty]

Most of them all agree that Strength increase = bigger body because increased muscle mass.

I always disagreed with this notion. Why should it work that way?

A car jack can lift up and hold a car with no problem, yet it is not as big as a bodybuilder. And it can hold it up longer than anybody else.

Ooooo but muscles work differently, they get tired, whatever else one would say in an argument. Well... to that, I say, real life has no stat windows and attributes you can pump numbers into.

Edit: So, an increase in str does not mean a drop in dex.

Only in narrow-sighted works, where the writer can't think out of the box.

 

[BearlyAlive]

For me, Strenght was always more about throughput than output, at least for my game brain. Nothing changes except more kinetic/magic/bullshit energy flows through your punches.

If you want truly opposing stats you might as well go STR vs CON, like output vs Kaputt or STR vs INT, ye good ol' brawn vs brain.

Strength and dexterity are more like a hidden multiplier where one stat profits from the other one, but that would mean the author has to think and if he has to think, he might as well combine all those stats into a "body" stat, so there's no problem when readers start to question the system

 

[miyoga]

It's explored a bit here, but more in a "OH! So that's how that works" kinda way not the "I must sacrifice this in order to become stronger" kinda way.

Demonic Devourer: First, I Eat the Babies

Devour. Level up. Repeat. Evelyn is a lab experiment, granted powers in exchange for finishing quests and annihilating her enemies. With them, she'll eliminate everything in her way to the top. But long before she reaches the pinnacle of power, she needs to accomplish her first quest: Objective...

www.scribblehub.com

 

[LilRora]

The analogy of higher Strength - more muscle is ridiculous because the speed of muscle's contraction is proportional to its length. In other words, if we went by that logic, increasing the speed stat would lengthen your muscles.

Not a good way to go.

 

[ParticleOfSand]

Just don't think about it that way. I try to keep things simple if possible or just avoid the problem by not explaining things.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

In strength, in real life anyway there are other factors beyond size.

One factor is density. Hence the carjack argument. If you are fat, you might be able to throw your weight around, and be harder to move but you don’t really have lifting strength.

There are pro weight lifters who look small with their clothes on, but can lift heavier than twice their size. This of course requires a very specific diet and training regimen.

But, strength does require some size. Bigger muscles of the same density are stronger.

Personally, I find “super strong women” in anime and fiction who don’t have some super power but are stronger than the buff guys to feel ridiculous to watch.

 

[Rezcore]

So... I don't see any other comparison other than Strength stat vs Speed stat(aka Dexterity, Agility, Reaction, Hand Eye, etc) and the ones that gave examples are the chinese.

Most of them all agree that Strength increase = bigger body because increased muscle mass.

Which by square-cube law where the strength of muscle is dependent on the cross-sectional area of the fiber while mass is density divided by volume. Meaning in actuality that while the person might be able to lift heavier mass due to them being heavier, their overall strength actually decreases...

Not the point, the point is that strength stat goes up, speed stat goes down because heavier.

Any other stories that explore this or are all works just "hee hee Superman~"

As someone that works out. I can assure you that this isn't always the case. Bigger muscles don't mean more strength, nor alway lower speed. It just depends on how your develop your muscles

 

[AnonUnlimited]

An example of a power lifter who isn't that buff looking with clothes on.

 

[Cipiteca396]

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Attribute#Strength

In the game Dwarf Fortress, increasing the strength stat has a specific set of things that it improves, including movement speed and muscle mass.
Having more muscle mass, in turn, makes you less likely to take lethal damage and slows you down slightly. At first, raising your strength makes you faster, but as you increase your mass, it eventually starts to balance out.
The larger the Creature, the faster your mass overtakes your strength.

In other words, I prefer to see stats kept separate, not 'directly opposed'. They can have benefits and demerits that affect other stats indirectly, and maybe you'll end up in a less than ideal state if you don't raise stats in combination with each other.

Though I also don't see a problem with tee hee supermans. Sometimes it's fun.

 

[NotaNuffian]

You know, in my "tee hee post this thread without a proofread" moment, I discovered that I failed to mention what I fully meant about opposing stats.

So take the OG logic of strength up = speed down, just roll with it please. My old writing (OG post) just end it there without writing my next line/ example.

In Warhammer Wizard (it is a CN untranslated work), MC maxed out his strength stat (to D&D level 20) and discover the "law" that his speed stat cannot go beyond level 10. Without his cheat system, no man can reach level 20 or even reach the point where one's strength stat hinders their speed stat. Of course MC pushed his speed stat to lvl 15 and the system then vehemently refused to let him click somemore.

There was an example in work where MC (strength lvl 20) was up against a foe with speed lvl 20. Described as "trying to hit a fly zipping around at mach 1 and pinning him down is impossible because of how slippery the bastard is." Of course the foe did negligible damage to MC, but he still wanted to kill MC to steal his corpse for his strength stat and OP abilities. In the end, MC won because he had Teleport, Gate and 20 plus clones that could spam the same wide AOE.

In another unrelated work, hopefully because I don't want the curse of the vet eunuch, MC from another work gained giantification and his speed immediately dropped.

 

[ParticleOfSand]

You know, in my "tee hee post this thread without a proofread" moment, I discovered that I failed to mention what I fully meant about opposing stats.

So take the OG logic of strength up = speed down, just roll with it please. My old writing (OG post) just end it there without writing my next line/ example.

In Warhammer Wizard (it is a CN untranslated work), MC maxed out his strength stat (to D&D level 20) and discover the "law" that his speed stat cannot go beyond level 10. Without his cheat system, no man can reach level 20 or even reach the point where one's strength stat hinders their speed stat. Of course MC pushed his speed stat to lvl 15 and the system then vehemently refused to let him click somemore.

There was an example in work where MC (strength lvl 20) was up against a foe with speed lvl 20. Described as "trying to hit a fly zipping around at mach 1 and pinning him down is impossible because of how slippery the bastard is." Of course the foe did negligible damage to MC, but he still wanted to kill MC to steal his corpse for his strength stat and OP abilities. In the end, MC won because he had Teleport, Gate and 20 plus clones that could spam the same wide AOE.

In another unrelated work, hopefully because I don't want the curse of the vet eunuch, MC from another work gained giantification and his speed immediately dropped.

Had to nerf the mc somehow. Otherwise, it would be a short story and author doesn't earn much money.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Had to nerf the mc somehow. Otherwise, it would be a short story and author doesn't earn much money.

1. The MC is already Imba OP, even at the start when compared to lots of ppl
2. The series is on indefinite hiatus. Apparently due to BS power level from all parties involved in the book. MC is literally God Emperor with 1 trillion clones running around the world taking over it while his enemies are gods.