When you are the only one holding out a candle:

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Deleted member 68927

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So, the Hetalia Byzantine/ Hetalia Bulgaria tag on AO3 is populated mostly with my stories. There are like three others which are not mine.

And I can't understand it, really. Back in the Medieval period, you couldn't have Bulgaria without the Byzantine Empire. They had this Frenemie dynamic going on, and I must say, that when the Byzantine Empire weakened, everything went to the shitter for Bulgaria too. So many wars, so many peaceful years. So much drama. And something that could be seen as a marriage, really.

And what do the Hetalia Fandom do? They ship Bulgaria with Romania, and won't even give Bultine a chance.

I'd like to read a Bultine fic too, you know?

Rant over.
 

MatchaChocolate69

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Bulgaria is really an interesting country that isn't talked about much. I have visited it several times because I know some Bulgarians.
From what I have studied, I know it was a Roman province, then obviously with the division, it became part of the Eastern Roman Empire and underwent heavy domination by the Ottomans. However, it's not much mentioned in history books. It's overshadowed by Vlad in Romania, Greece, and Turkey, which have a more significant impact and surround it.
 
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Bulgaria is really an interesting country that isn't talked about much. I have visited it several times because I know some Bulgarians.
From what I have studied, I know it was a Roman province, then obviously with the division, it became part of the Eastern Roman Empire and underwent heavy domination by the Ottomans. However, it's not much mentioned in history books. It's overshadowed by Vlad in Romania, Greece, and Turkey, which have a more significant impact and surround it.
I know I should be grateful he is even in the anime, but some of the most epic Bulgarian History Moments happened in a connection with the Byzantine Empire. The glory days with the big battles (Once the Byzantine Empire started a Holy War against Bulgaria, never mind that we were Christians too, and we won.). Not to mention the tragic attempt to save Volga Bulgaria, against the Golden Hoard.

But I guess I will never see that in the anime.
 

Sagacious_Punk

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Bulgaria is really an interesting country that isn't talked about much. I have visited it several times because I know some Bulgarians.
From what I have studied, I know it was a Roman province, then obviously with the division, it became part of the Eastern Roman Empire and underwent heavy domination by the Ottomans. However, it's not much mentioned in history books. It's overshadowed by Vlad in Romania, Greece, and Turkey, which have a more significant impact and surround it.
Bulgaria isn't prominent in world history books only because we (or rather, our politicians and "intelligentzia") go at great lengths to self-sabotage our cultural heritage.

If it wasn't for Khan Tervel in 8th century, Eastern Europe would've followed the same fate as Spain, falling entirely under Arabian influence, perhaps for centuries. During the High Middle Ages, Tarnovo, Bulgaria's then-capital, was considered "the third Rome" (the second one being Constantinople) in terms of cultural richness, sophistication, and amount of accumulated books in royal and clerical libraries. Before that, during Christianization, both the Catholic Church and the East-Orthodox Church fought over who would influence Bulgaria, and we played both sides in order to get the "best deal".

Then, there is the fact that some of our philo-theological schools have indirectly helped start the Renaissance itself in Europe, namely the katars, who had close ties with the bogomils after their exodus from Bulgaria. And the katars and Knights Templar are both the forefathers of the Renaissance.

The entire Slavic world owes the Cyrillic alphabet to Tzar Boris the First, one of the greatest Bulgarian kings in history, who commissioned it from St. Kiril after he left Byzantium.

We fought and humiliated the Latin Empire (made from crusaders that got a little too ambitious for their own good). We have kept the Ottomans at bay for decades before they conquered the Balkans, and then have failed only because of internal strife and succession crisis in the midst of one of the largest invasions in history.

Also, we, as a people, have had several countries all across Europe, all the way to far-east Asia, and even today in some of those regions (mostly modern Russia) you can find people who ethnically identify themselves as Bulgarians.

And so on and so forth.

Bottom line, Bulgaria is a country that may seem small and insignificant now, but we have played a key role multiple times in world history (and in the history of Europe especially). Lastly, Bulgaria is the only country in the world with the longest unchanged name since its founding. Even China or India started out with different names.
 
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Did someone say Byzantine?

 

MatchaChocolate69

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Bulgaria isn't prominent in world history books only because we (or rather, our politicians and "intelligentzia") go at great lengths to self-sabotage our cultural heritage.

If it wasn't for Khan Tervel in 8th century, Eastern Europe would've followed the same fate as Spain, falling entirely under Arabian influence, perhaps for centuries. During the High Middle Ages, Tarnovo, Bulgaria's then-capital, was considered "the third Rome" (the second one being Constantinople) in terms of cultural richness, sophistication, and amount of accumulated books in royal and clerical libraries. Before that, during Christianization, both the Catholic Church and the East-Orthodox Church fought over who would influence Bulgaria, and we played both sides in order to get the "best deal".

Then, there is the fact that some of our philo-theological schools have indirectly helped start the Renaissance itself in Europe, namely the katars, who had close ties with the bogomils after their exodus from Bulgaria. And the katars and Knights Templar are both the forefathers of the Renaissance.

The entire Slavic world owes the Cyrillic alphabet to Tzar Boris the First, one of the greatest Bulgarian kings in history, who commissioned it from St. Kiril after he left Byzantium.

We fought and humiliated the Latin Empire (made from crusaders that got a little too ambitious for their own good). We have kept the Ottomans at bay for decades before they conquered the Balkans, and then have failed only because of internal strife and succession crisis in the midst of one of the largest invasions in history.

Also, we, as a people, have had several countries all across Europe, all the way to far-east Asia, and even today in some of those regions (mostly modern Russia) you can find people who ethnically identify themselves as Bulgarians.

And so on and so forth.

Bottom line, Bulgaria is a country that may seem small and insignificant now, but we have played a key role multiple times in world history (and in the history of Europe especially). Lastly, Bulgaria is the only country in the world with the longest unchanged name since its founding. Even China or India started out with different names.
Thank you for sharing this information. There's a lot of potential for great stories. Especially the resistance against the Ottomans, the last bastion protecting Europe. It's a theme that should be explored. I partly understand you, I know what it means to have a great heritage and see one's country go into complete decline. In any case, I absolutely do not think it's an insignificant country. On the contrary, it's full of charm and great people (and the food is very good).
 

Sagacious_Punk

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Thank you for sharing this information. There's a lot of potential for great stories. Especially the resistance against the Ottomans, the last bastion protecting Europe. It's a theme that should be explored. I partly understand you, I know what it means to have a great heritage and see one's country go into complete decline. In any case, I absolutely do not think it's an insignificant country. On the contrary, it's full of charm and great people (and the food is very good).
Yes, sorry if my post seemed overly emotional. I guess I was somewhat triggered by the "Bulgaria overshadowed by X" part. :D

As for stories, a few years back we had a very cool trilogy of CYOA (Choose Your Own Adventure) books about the Tsar Kaloyan, another great Bulgarian ruler (the one who defeated the Latin Empire crusaders), where you play as him and try at first to navigate the deadly court of Byzantium (while held there as a "royal guest", aka a prisoner of noble status), then as you try to liberate the Bulgarian kingdom and unite its nobility (during that time, Bulgaria had been a subjugated state to the Byzantine Empire). Unfortunately, it's available only in Bulgarian.
 

melchi

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Trying to find non fiction on the Byzantine empire is hard. Most of the stuff on youtube is just how the mistakes of the leaders lead to the rise of the ottoman empire. So it gets overshadowed by the Ottoman's really badly.

I bet there might be some more stuff in muslim history but it prob has the Byzantines' be the bad guys.
 

MatchaChocolate69

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Trying to find non fiction on the Byzantine empire is hard. Most of the stuff on youtube is just how the mistakes of the leaders lead to the rise of the ottoman empire. So it gets overshadowed by the Ottoman's really badly.

I bet there might be some more stuff in muslim history but it prob has the Byzantines' be the bad guys.
The fall of Constantinople still pains me.
 

Sagacious_Punk

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Trying to find non fiction on the Byzantine empire is hard. Most of the stuff on youtube is just how the mistakes of the leaders lead to the rise of the ottoman empire. So it gets overshadowed by the Ottoman's really badly.

I bet there might be some more stuff in muslim history but it prob has the Byzantines' be the bad guys.
That's strange. Perhaps you haven't searched in the right academic circles? The Byzantine Empire have a lot of surviving records; most of Bulgaria's medieval history is in fact inferred from their chronicles, because almost nothing of ours has survived Ottoman rule.

Churches from Byzantine times are especially plentiful, and a source of information; my history prof from uni told us that they regularly did field trips to study churches' mosaics and paintings, because that gave hints about how life and society had looked in those times.

It could be just that since Byzantium is intimately tied with the history of the Balkans, our local academia just has better research on the topic. But I doubt this is the case. For some reason, America loves everything Greek-related (including Byzantine stuff), and they have a good grasp on the history of the region too. At least that's what I learned while studying formally.
 

melchi

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I'm not sure the right professors exist in the universities around here. Like the local university, a quick search of available classes that have the word Byzantine the only one I found is a class about Byzantine art.

https://pdx.smartcatalogiq.com/en/2017-2018/bulletin/courses/arh-art-history/300/arh-357u/ (I don't know if they even still offer this class)

I'd be interested in fanfics or some mini documentaries as well but a series of 4 hour lectures is like going back to university.

There was a youtube video that I saw that talked about how the ottomans first claimed land in europe that had the Byzantine royal succession conflict as the cause. I'd have to find it again but it was something like one prince could get the throne from his brother if he captured a fort across the sea from what is not modern day turkey. But he didn't have the troops to capture the place and instead hired the turks who proved successful, however when the prince asked them to leave they refused and kept the land they captured that later turned into the foothold that let them get established enough to expand and invade serbia.
(I didn't even know that there was a kingdom of Serbia back in the Byzantine era. So that was an interesting discovery. I think it was a big deal back in the 1300s)
 
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Deleted member 68927

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I'm not sure the right professors exist in the universities around here. Like the local university, a quick search of available classes that have the word Byzantine the only one I found is a class about Byzantine art.

https://pdx.smartcatalogiq.com/en/2017-2018/bulletin/courses/arh-art-history/300/arh-357u/ (I don't know if they even still offer this class)

I'd be interested in fanfics or some mini documentaries as well but a series of 4 hour lectures is like going back to university.

There was a youtube video that I saw that talked about how the ottomans first claimed land in europe that had the Byzantine royal succession conflict as the cause. I'd have to find it again but it was something like one prince could get the throne from his brother if he captured a fort across the sea from what is not modern day turkey. But he didn't have the troops to capture the place and instead hired the turks who proved successful, however when the prince asked them to leave they refused and kept the land they captured that later turned into the foothold that let them get established enough to expand and invade serbia.
(I didn't even know that there was a kingdom of Serbia back in the Byzantine era. So that was an interesting discovery. I think it was a big deal back in the 1300s)
That land was in current Greece, if I remember correctly. You see, one thing you have to give to the Ottomans. They used the bickering of the Balkan nations, to pit them against one another. Sometimes, even to pit them against their own people. The Byzantines tried to prevent that, and asked the current Bulgarian Tsar for money to rebuild their fleet, but our idiot said no.

Now there is no more Byzantine, and we had to put up with 5 centuries of slavery.

Mega fail.
Did someone say Byzantine?

You know, now that I think about it, if Hetalia Byzantine was shown as a woman, I'd like her to be just like this. Then I can imagine spicy study sessions between Bulgaria and her.

The Byzantine Empire did create the Cyrillic alphabet, you know.

Hetero is not my cup of tea, but I ship this.
 
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