Means vs. End

[Rosica]

Aleph and Beth stood at the edge of a quiet world, watching time pass like a slow river.

“I only want one thing,” said Aleph. “Immortality. Once I have it, I am done.”

Beth glanced over. “Done? What does ‘done’ even mean if you never end?”

“It means I reached my goal,” Aleph replied. “Everything leads to that.”

Beth shook their head. “For me, immortality is just the beginning. I want time so I can master every form of magic that exists.”

Aleph frowned. “So you never finish?”

“I finish things,” Beth said, “just not everything. There is always more.”

“Then what is the point?” Aleph asked. “If it never ends, how do you know it matters?”

Beth smiled slightly. “If it ends, how do you know it still matters after?”

Aleph paused. “So you think the journey is enough?”

“And you think the destination is,” Beth replied.

They stood in silence for a moment.

Then Beth asked, “When you reach immortality, what will you do next?”

Aleph hesitated.

Aleph looked back and asked, “And if you master everything… will you ever stop?”

This time, Beth did not answer.

---

Question for you:
Do you value something more for what it leads to, or for what it is in itself?

 

[WineImmortal]

Always the journey

 

[Zagaroth]

I'm going to have to go with "Journey before destination" here.

Consider video games as a simple example: Yes, there is value in completing a game, knowing the story, having that satisfying ending. Yet, for many of us, there is also value in replaying even linear games, if the experience of playing the game is good enough. Or for that matter, re-reading a book. Are we not choosing to re-experience that journey?

I'm with Beth. I love eternally learning and doing new things. There are some people who, as they get older, find value in the limited time of their lives. Personally, at the age of 51, I think I would do quite well with immortality. I would love to to be able to keep accumulating new experiences and skills. I have enough stories in my head at this point in time that I will be writing for decades, given that I have the health to do so, and new ideas are always coming forth.

If I did become immortal, maybe I would eventually run out of inspiration to actually write more stories. That is fine. By then, I would probably have a pretty decent income in the form of royalties, maybe even a small franchise of some sort. Great, passive income. Now I can go traveling with my wife at a speed that works for both of us. I am a bit of an introvert, so if I want, say, 10 days of experiences at a location, I would ideally book a hotel for 20+ days, and set an assumption that we would only be going out every other day at most. I want to enjoy all the interesting places and people and food, but I need a day to recover for each day spent out dealing with the world.

And there will always be something else to do, to learn, to experience. I do not fear that it would ever become boring for me.

 

[ArchlordZero]

I'll go risk my neck for this and say that the end justifies the means.

I'll go compare this with two TV shows I love, Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad.
Game of Thrones has an awesome journey but shitty ending.
Breaking Bad has shitty boring journey but awesome ending.

Make no mistake, both are awesome. But most viewers prefer Breaking Bad because of its phenomenal ending.

Which means, the people would often forget the journey and will only remember the ending.

This applies in real life as well.
Nobody cares if you peaked in high school and topped the university exams if you end up becoming a boring everyday salaryman.
However, you will be remembered by history books even if you started as a homeless boy and get rejected in art school, as long as you become a leader of a global superpower in the end.

Wait, I think I'm referencing the wrong person. But you get my point

 

[Nitra_dai]

Aleph and Beth stood at the edge of a quiet world, watching time pass like a slow river.

“I only want one thing,” said Aleph. “Immortality. Once I have it, I am done.”

Beth glanced over. “Done? What does ‘done’ even mean if you never end?”

“It means I reached my goal,” Aleph replied. “Everything leads to that.”

Beth shook their head. “For me, immortality is just the beginning. I want time so I can master every form of magic that exists.”

Aleph frowned. “So you never finish?”

“I finish things,” Beth said, “just not everything. There is always more.”

“Then what is the point?” Aleph asked. “If it never ends, how do you know it matters?”

Beth smiled slightly. “If it ends, how do you know it still matters after?”

Aleph paused. “So you think the journey is enough?”

“And you think the destination is,” Beth replied.

They stood in silence for a moment.

Then Beth asked, “When you reach immortality, what will you do next?”

Aleph hesitated.

Aleph looked back and asked, “And if you master everything… will you ever stop?”

This time, Beth did not answer.

---

Question for you:
Do you value something more for what it leads to, or for what it is in itself?

As a human, the journey is more valuable. Because at the end all we achieve is death. If you want to please everybody else rather than yourself or you want to live on the history as someone, than it's a different matter.

 

[WineImmortal]

I'll go risk my neck for this and say that the end justifies the means.

I'll go compare this with two TV shows I love, Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad.
Game of Thrones has an awesome journey but shitty ending.
Breaking Bad has shitty boring journey but awesome ending.

Make no mistake, both are awesome. But most viewers prefer Breaking Bad because of its phenomenal ending.

Which means, the people would often forget the journey and will only remember the ending.

This applies in real life as well.
Nobody cares if you peaked in high school and topped the university exams if you end up becoming a boring everyday salaryman.
However, you will be remembered by history books even if you started as a homeless boy and get rejected in art school, as long as you become a leader of a global superpower in the end.

Wait, I think I'm referencing the wrong person. But you get my point

True... i read a kr webnovel long time ago. I still remember that ending as it so shitty that it is imprinted in my brain to this day.

But journey is the enjoyable part.

 

[CinnaSloth]

Where's the both option?

 

[NotaNuffian]

"If your end justifies the mean, then you must have a shitty end."

Paraphrased from Everyone Loves Large Chests.

Used on the spy master who committed loads of crime in order to get what he wants. He failed in the end, obviously.

As for me, I am a cat person, specifically Deng XiaoPing's "it doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, if it catches mice it's a good cat"

Personally, I value the good thing at the end. Because a shitty journey with a nice end is a better send-off than a nice journey with a shitty end. I tend to look at the result more.

However, that does not mean that I would not enjoy the good journey, just that now whenever I reminisce, the never-ending journey sounds a bit exhausting.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

Aleph and Beth stood at the edge of a quiet world, watching time pass like a slow river.

“I only want one thing,” said Aleph. “Immortality. Once I have it, I am done.”

Beth glanced over. “Done? What does ‘done’ even mean if you never end?”

“It means I reached my goal,” Aleph replied. “Everything leads to that.”

Beth shook their head. “For me, immortality is just the beginning. I want time so I can master every form of magic that exists.”

Aleph frowned. “So you never finish?”

“I finish things,” Beth said, “just not everything. There is always more.”

“Then what is the point?” Aleph asked. “If it never ends, how do you know it matters?”

Beth smiled slightly. “If it ends, how do you know it still matters after?”

Aleph paused. “So you think the journey is enough?”

“And you think the destination is,” Beth replied.

They stood in silence for a moment.

Then Beth asked, “When you reach immortality, what will you do next?”

Aleph hesitated.

Aleph looked back and asked, “And if you master everything… will you ever stop?”

This time, Beth did not answer.

---

Question for you:
Do you value something more for what it leads to, or for what it is in itself?

I made no choice on the poll, because I would say "both".
Obviously, the way needs to entertain me, in order for me to gather up the motivation to see it through to the end - but if the end isn't worth it, I won't bother with the way either.
Trust me, I've stopped watching one of my favorite shows during the beginning of its last season, because I got spoiled for the ending and it was so bad, I felt like my entire time had been wasted.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Aleph and Beth stood at the edge of a quiet world, watching time pass like a slow river.

“I only want one thing,” said Aleph. “Immortality. Once I have it, I am done.”

Beth glanced over. “Done? What does ‘done’ even mean if you never end?”

“It means I reached my goal,” Aleph replied. “Everything leads to that.”

Beth shook their head. “For me, immortality is just the beginning. I want time so I can master every form of magic that exists.”

Aleph frowned. “So you never finish?”

“I finish things,” Beth said, “just not everything. There is always more.”

“Then what is the point?” Aleph asked. “If it never ends, how do you know it matters?”

Beth smiled slightly. “If it ends, how do you know it still matters after?”

Aleph paused. “So you think the journey is enough?”

“And you think the destination is,” Beth replied.

They stood in silence for a moment.

Then Beth asked, “When you reach immortality, what will you do next?”

Aleph hesitated.

Aleph looked back and asked, “And if you master everything… will you ever stop?”

This time, Beth did not answer.

---

Question for you:
Do you value something more for what it leads to, or for what it is in itself?

My english is not englishing now.

What it leads to = end?
What it is in itself = journey?

 

[Rosica]

My english is not englishing now.

What it leads to = end?
What it is in itself = journey?

Correct, mister.

That's Anglish though. English without the foreign bits.

 

[AnonUnlimited]

If everyone were killed by a nuclear bomb, we would have world peace.

 

[Nitra_dai]

If everyone were killed by a nuclear bomb, we would have world peace.

Bruh...

 

[laccoff_mawning]

As nice as it sounds to say that the journey itself is the important part, I have to disagree. Those who do think this way are just thinking too literally about the concept of the 'destination'.

The reason that the journey often feels important is because of some form of growth or experience that happens along the way. But that growth/experience that we appreciate is ultimately the result of the journey, ie is what the journey leads to, ie should count as part of the destination of the journey.

You can't define the value of the journey itself in any way except the length or time required to traverse it. And those things have no greater meaning.