I’m working on planning out some upcoming character arcs and wanted to get the community's take on how you prefer your "deeply broken" characters to manifest their trauma.
Specifically, I’m looking at two distinct psychological defense mechanisms for a high-stakes, dark thriller setting:
The Traumatized "Clown" Persona: A character who has lost everything, feels entirely untethered to the world, and masks severe nihilism and fear of genuine attachment behind a loud, cheerful, eccentric persona. On the outside, they act like a chaotic jokester or an untouchable mentor, but underneath, they are completely hollowed out by grief.
The Sadistic "God Complex": A character who behaves like an arrogant, control-freak sadist—not necessarily because they are pure evil (they might even be working on the "good" side)—but because causing fear in others is the only mechanism that makes them feel strong enough to override their own deep-seated terror.
When you are reading psychological or dark fiction, which of these two archetypes do you find more compelling to follow? Do you prefer the tragedy of someone hiding behind a smile, or the tension of a fundamentally insecure character wielding a god complex? Also i have many other complex character ideas though i am not sure if people like deep complex characters or shallow normal characters.
Bro, this is EXACTLY what I'm doing with my MC. It's kinda scary that you list it out like that. But I guess your post presents it more as a choice than both of the options stemming from the same person.
So yeah, I prefer both at once. And with a dash of "Absolute Black and White Morality" to help cope with his inner explanation as to why there are good and bad people + "Centuries Old Exhaustion" to show the toll it takes of this kind of personality would have on someone.
Oh but I didn't actually meant clown. I Meant clown persona just for context ( SPOILER ALERT ) I will write a female character whose past was too tragic (that even I as a author cried while writing it lol) that she is now scared of genuine attachment and think she is unlucky..... in present she makes jokes and hide behind it keeping everyone at arm length when somebody tries to get close but inside she is deeply broken and wants to have somebody by her side. she is a side character btw will be introduced later in the story. Before the Storm Gathers – Prana though i am taking my time to slowly build the world the pacing is medium but it was a major spoiler what if somebody copied my idea? LOL! She is morally grey character btw
Oh, when it comes to FMC, I suppose you're doing it properly for a grimdark. I'm just happy if it's not caused by a dystopian society at this point, tbh.
Bro, this is EXACTLY what I'm doing with my MC. It's kinda scary that you list it out like that. But I guess your post presents it more as a choice than both of the options stemming from the same person.
So yeah, I prefer both at once. And with a dash of "Absolute Black and White Morality" to help cope with his inner explanation as to why there are good and bad people + "Centuries Old Exhaustion" to show the toll it takes of this kind of personality would have on someone.
Oh, when it comes to FMC, I suppose you're doing it properly for a grimdark. I'm just happy if it's not caused by a dystopian society at this point, tbh.
So yeah, I prefer both at once. And with a dash of "Absolute Black and White Morality" to help cope with his inner explanation as to why there are good and bad people + "Centuries Old Exhaustion" to show the toll it takes of this kind of personality would have on someone.
Just a character with an outwardly playful clown face to reassure society and protect their emotional vulnerability, on a character already completely hollowed out by grief thus lacking all other emotion and any care for how others see them...
Who also acts outwardly evil, sadistic and controlling, BUT who is also secretly (in a redeeming way?) cravenly evil on the inside feeling emotionally reassured when they cause harm to others with their outwardly evil actions.
Who is also so irredeemable and/or foolish they have been doing this for centuries without learning any better.
Who also ascribes to an absolutist black and white morality that they use to justify their actions based on either shrugging and calling themselves evil, or worse, justifying their evil actions because they've declared themselves good and their victims evil and therefore deserving of suffering.
And all that just shows the toll centuries of choosing to be like this take on the poor suffering quadruple evil on the inside and out absolute moralistic sadistic sad clown who we should and will feel sympathy for since they are so very likeable.
Here is the most appropriate forum emoticon I could find for that character design
So, again, I demand you discard that character design and come back with something completely different.
Since that is entirely a thing I can do. No. There is no appeal. You just have to do it now.
PS. I used the word 'clown' repeatedly. At no point was I actually talking about an actual professional clown this time. If your takeaway from this post is "no actual clowns" while not a bad takeaway, it is not the correct one.
"Just a character with an outwardly playful clown face to reassure society and protect their emotional vulnerability, on a character already completely hollowed out by grief thus lacking all other emotion and any care for how others see them..."
He's not completely hollowed out. He's actually capable of showing a lot of emotions as he tries to distract himself from his grief, from the simple joy of a good conversation to feeling the sting of grief when he's alone with his thoughts.
"Who also acts outwardly evil, sadistic and controlling, BUT who is also secretly (in a redeeming way?) cravenly evil on the inside feeling emotionally reassured when they cause harm to others with their outwardly evil actions."
He's not controlling. That's the main reason why his crew and wives like him. He lets them speak their mind and do things their way as long as it doesn't derail his plans completely. Otherwise, he reprimands them as needed. Him causing harm to the people he considered bad is only something he actively committed when he was a child at around 11 - 60 Earth years old. After that, he matured a lot and chilled tf out, even though he's still a teenager / young adult by a god's standards.
"And all that just shows the toll centuries of choosing to be like this take on the poor suffering quadruple evil on the inside and out absolute moralistic sadistic sad clown who we should and will feel sympathy for since they are so very likeable."
Well, first of all, he's only around 80 Earth years old. That "Centuries Old Exhaustion" is more of a vibe than a literal length of time. In the end, it doesn't matter how old a character like that needs to be. I just condense his life so he can be a badass his whole life while still not jarring when he acts like a jackass to get stuff done.
Aside from that, he genuinely helped people out. Though crude, him freeing slaves and assimilating them into his village allows them to live a new life where they can feel like a part of an actual community where they're appreciated for their work with actual healthcare, houses they own that their children and grandchildren inherit, and no worry that a whip would find them if they don't break their backs enough to fulfill quotas. My MC will just kick them out if they slack off too much.
You can guess that this gave him a lot of supporters, especially during the Middle Ages, where getting food on the table was an uncertainty unless you sold yourself to someone or were wealthy enough to not have to worry about it. And that's not to mention the policies he created to create peace within Rome and the surrounding lands in his 40s until he got a flying ship and was able to get more lands under his control in his 50s and take statecraft seriously to turn Rome back into the powerhouse it was a century before he took the throne.
"Here is the most appropriate forum emoticon I could find for that character design
So, again, I demand you discard that character design and come back with something completely different.
Since that is entirely a thing I can do. No. There is no appeal. You just have to do it now."
On the surface, I guess this is completely nonsensical. But I grew up with Persona 4 and FFX. I think I got enough influence and drive to create EXACTLY what I wanted. Hell, I already did volume I, so there's no redoing it without discarding the entirety of the 230k words of the Original Cut and 92k words of the web version.
And the worldbuilding was built from the ground up to support a being like him existing in the world anyway. Without him, the mortals will just keep enslaving people and doing wars that would kill millions in total with most gods not caring at all (cause why would they? They're like the billionaires of this world), and the godless angels are completely swamped with keeping their little sanctuary towns afloat, so they can't possibly just stage a coup or do a hostile takeover of dozens of kingdoms big and small to revamp it themselves.
Now tell me, what kind of person dyt is crazy and powerful enough to pull off something like that? To not only be ruthless enough to want to take over others' land, but also companionate enough to not straight-up enslave the native population for the sake of Rome, but instead, turn them into legit citizens of the empire from the get-go to the point where he kills his own commanders that step out of line?
I honestly can't think of ANY MC that has existed so far that ticks all of the boxes to pull this off. I mean, he fought off powerful demons and gods alike that challenged him. Htf does anyone less suppose to survive any of that?
And that's not to mention they need to live a long life, so all non-god MCs with short lifespans like normal humans are scratched off completely from the list. (So no Naruto or any heroes from Western stories). On top of being sane enough to not just go full Stalin and kill people for no reason (so no Ainz since he straight up committed genocide in later seasons of the anime).
The world is also 11/10 realistic, so "statecraft" means actual real-life handling of selfish and depraved rulers who want to only enrich themselves while starving others of the same opportunities they had to get there in the first place (so no Anos since he just beat his problem into submission).
They also can't just undo any mistakes that resulted in the deaths of a bunch of people. So if that happens, they will just have to live with the fact that they either let it happen knowingly or not or accept the fact that they committed an atrocity for whatever greater reason there was to do it. (So no Rimuru, since he can just resurrect people at any time as a demon lord while my magic system doesn't support that to not obliterate the stakes like his anime did for me).
But let's say I don't scratch off the mortals. The thing is, once they die, then the world will have to gamble with the next one in line being just as good. Because if it's a downward slope, it only takes a couple of generations to completely shatter the balance of power, just like what happened to the Mongols after Genghis Khan died.
"PS. I used the word 'clown' repeatedly. At no point was I actually talking about an actual professional clown this time. If your takeaway from this post is "no actual clowns" while not a bad takeaway, it is not the correct one."
I did not think the bit where I demanded you come back with a completely different character would be sneakily done retroactively.
But yeah, not actually having the character traits as described by the OP does in fact negate a lot of my criticism that having all of the character traits described by the OP and the ones you added would make for a deeply horrid character.
I might wonder why you briefly claimed to have all those things, but OK. I'm impressed by how you met my demands with time travel.
He's not controlling. That's the main reason why his crew and wives like him. He lets them speak their mind and do things their way as long as it doesn't derail his plans completely. Otherwise, he reprimands them as needed.
He sounds charming. Or rather, that sounds like a description a battered wife would give of an abusive husband. Might want to work on that as a defense of good character.
Well, first of all, he's only around 80 Earth years old. That "Centuries Old Exhaustion" is more of a vibe than a literal length of time. In the end, it doesn't matter how old a character like that needs to be. I just condense his life so he can be a badass his whole life while still not jarring when he acts like a jackass to get stuff done.
Aside from that, he genuinely helped people out. Though crude, him freeing slaves and assimilating them into his village allows them to live a new life where they can feel like a part of an actual community where they're appreciated for their work with actual healthcare, houses they own that their children and grandchildren inherit, and no worry that a whip would find them if they don't break their backs enough to fulfill quotas. My MC will just kick them out if they slack off too much.
The thing is. 'Freeing' the slaves is a popular way to make your MC look good. And it does. A bit. So authors seem to do it a lot, especially with the dark antiheroes that need some good guy credentials. But, just being anti slavery is a low bar.
Being anti slavery, then setting the slaves to work AND adding the proviso that you only want them for the labor and will kick them out if they do not produce enough labor... That is a lower bar even than just freeing some slaves and walking away.
You can guess that this gave him a lot of supporters, especially during the Middle Ages, where getting food on the table was an uncertainty unless you sold yourself to someone or were wealthy enough to not have to worry about it. And that's not to mention the policies he created to create peace within Rome and the surrounding lands in his 40s until he got a flying ship and was able to get more lands under his control in his 50s and take statecraft seriously to turn Rome back into the powerhouse it was a century before he took the throne.
I feel like the Pope and the Eastern Roman Empire would have a lot to say about that. Especially the bit where a known irresponsible child of only 40 or 50 was illegally driving an airship without qualifying for a valid adult drivers license.
I honestly can't think of ANY MC that has existed so far that ticks all of the boxes to pull this off. I mean, he fought off powerful demons and gods alike that challenged him. Htf does anyone less suppose to survive any of that?
Napoleon. Because mentioning him can be funny. But maybe he doesn't count?
Since Napoleon, much to his displeasure was not an immortal or an MC. MCs generally definitionally do not actually exist and immortals don't seem to either.
So I'm assuming you mean exist fictionally and so I'm going to start with Dr Who, half the cast of the DC universe, Sun Wukong, and then like, every second long running or powerful MC to ever not-exist.
But I'm also keeping Napoleon and a bunch of historic mortal conquerors because since the powers of gods and angels apparently are limited to being the same as rich guys and/or struggling to run a few villages, they aren't outside of the norms for enemies that real world guys have routinely defeated. And not all of them even enslaved everyone all the time! They must have all been great guys! Except Napoleon, who was well known to be kind of a dick despite sometimes in some places implementing limited anti slavery measures. Odd how someone can be like that...
And that's not to mention they need to live a long life, so all non-god MCs with short lifespans like normal humans are scratched off completely from the list. (So no Naruto or any heroes from Western stories). On top of being sane enough to not just go full Stalin and kill people for no reason (so no Ainz since he straight up committed genocide in later seasons of the anime).
Because I'm not too sure but I think you've told me that you carefully crafted a setting entirely around it requiring Rome to taken from Pope Wonder Woman the 1st and her trash boyfriend Napoleon by Sun Wukong in temporary grudging alliance with Dr Who and his Eastern Roman Empire Armies in the late 6th century AD with the pretext of preventing a glut of known sociopathic 50 year old men committing under age air ship driving crimes as the Casus belli.
"Being anti slavery, then setting the slaves to work ANDadding the proviso that you only want them for the labor and will kick them out if they do not produce enough labor... That is a lower bar even than just freeing some slaves and walking away."
Ok, now I know you're just trolling. Wdy want him to do? Let them freeload on the village? Who are fishing? Who are farming? Or dyt it's ok for some to just sit on their ass taking everything without working for it while most keep society afloat? If not, what would you do if they refuse to work?
And none of the characters you listed knows anything about statecraft except Napoleon. But what happens after he dies? His child inherits it? And what if the child mess everything up? Who will take his place?
The godless angels in my world bite their pride and chose the MC because he ticks all of the boxes and can't die. Imagine if you champion someone for their whole life only for them to croak before they do something important and caused a civil war because someone doesn't like the next guy that would be on the throne.
Tbf, I guess I piled on too much on to people that doesn't care about my story at all at the start. Btw, realistic to me just means absolute internal consistency and logical chain of events. So as long as the story already set the precedent as to what can and can't happen and doesn't violate that with nonsense deus ex machina or ass-pull power up, I'm cool with it.
Hmm, guess I'm being too serious in Scribble, huh.
And none of the characters you listed knows anything about statecraft except Napoleon. But what happens after he dies? His child inherits it? And what if the child mess everything up? Who will take his place?
Wonder woman has been a lot of things, but princess and Queen are definitely on the list. Along with a bunch of statecraft related roles including spy and diplomat. Also she is, in various cannon the daughter of various Queens, Gods, Kings of Gods and so on. She pretty much permanently has been the main representative of the nation of the Amazons to the rest of the planet basically all the time.
Sun Wukong, Great Sage Equal of Heaven, is the god damn Monkey King, holds a titled position in the Heavenly Court of the Jade Emperor, and is most famed for going on a many year long quest to obtain ultimate divine wisdom and share it with the people.
And you rather clearly aren't at all familiar with Dr Who, President of the Time Lords. Lets not get into the rest of his state craft nonsense. Which is extensive.
If anything. Napoleon very possibly ranks in pretty poorly in the group for his state craft qualifications, after all, famously, everyone regarded him as a bit of a dick. And even Napoleon kinda undermines your "but what about the next generation?" ahem, "conundrum" since Napoleon accidentally created a lot of the foundations of what would become modern western democracy.
As for your next guy on the throne more widely supposedly only being solvable by a merely mildly sociopathic immortal thing... are you familiar with the countless historic forms of governmental succession, even period appropriate... at all?
What were all the Chinese angels up to during all this? Maybe the Chinese had some sort of solution for the impossible to solve succession dilemma that didn't just revolve around making Sun Wukong Emperor? The Italian Angels couldn't have got them on the angel phone and asked them how to stop Napoleon from declaring his far too good for him girlfriend Pope Wonder Woman 1 thru 5? For more local advice maybe they could have got on a video call with Dr Who in Byzantium and asked how come the Eastern Roman Empire was still going for another nine centuries without even trying anything especially revolutionary?
Ok, know I know FOR SURE you're trolling bro
Since we agree that Napoleon isn't that great of a candidate, I'ma shut down the other ones.
First up, Sun Wukong? The "Great Sage Equal of Heaven"? Seriously? You got that from playing Black Myth or something?
That "titled position" in the Heavenly Court you’re hyping up was Bimawen. It's literally a low-ranking, insulting joke of a job tending the heavenly horse stables meant to keep a chaotic monkey out of trouble. When he found out it wasn't a real position of power, he threw a tantrum, trashed heaven, and stole immortal peaches.
"Great Sage" is a title he literally made up himself because his feelings were hurt, and Heaven only accepted it because he threatened to murder everyone if they didn't.
And "Monkey King"? Wukong routinely abandons Flower Fruit Mountain for decades at a time to go play with magic and fight gods. Every time he leaves, his kingdom gets enslaved or destroyed by demons because he is a negligent, terrible ruler who doesn't understand infrastructure, economics, or day-to-day governance. He is a chaotic trickster jackass, not a statesman.
Next, Doctor Who? "President of the Time Lords?" I don't know much about British television, but I've watched enough Youtube essays to answer this one:
First of all, the Doctor didn't campaign for office or write a manifesto. He was framed for assassination, solved the mystery, and accidentally stumbled into the title through a legal loophole.
His very first act as president? He stole his TARDIS and ran away from the planet because he absolutely loathed the idea of sitting in a room, doing paperwork, and playing politician. He is a cosmic hobo who flees authority and institutions. Heck, his solution to his own planet's ultimate political crisis was literally blowing it up.
Finally, Wonder Woman.
Aside from the fact that a comic book superhero has zero internal consistency because fifty different writers retcon her every decade, she is a warrior-diplomat. She doesn't sit in an office managing agricultural quotas, tax collection, or civic unrest in a crumbling dark-age society.
And if you want to talk about "realistic" historic forms of governance for the Amazons, you might want to look at DC's New 52 era, where the Amazons maintained their population by raiding sailor ships, sleeping with the men, murdering them, dumping their bodies in the ocean, and trading the baby boys to Hephaestus for weapons. Is that the kind of stable, benevolent statecraft you want my MC to emulate?
As for Byzantium surviving for nine centuries "without trying anything revolutionary," the Eastern Roman Empire survived on a razor's edge of constant civil wars, military coups, riots, and usurpers literally blinding, mutilating, and murdering rivals to steal the throne. It is the textbook definition of an unstable nightmare. My MC's entire purpose is to step in as an immortal anchor to prevent that exact brand of bloody Byzantine chaos.
There is a massive difference between a character holding a cool mythological title in a cartoon vacuum and a character engaging in the gritty, unglamorous, ground-level administrative logistics of running an empire. My MC is staying behind to do the heavy lifting of statecraft so his people don't starve. Your candidates are superheroes who punch a bad guy and fly away before the hard work of rebuilding a society even begins.
But hey, "Pope Wonder Woman 1 thru 5" is a hilarious mental image. Thanks for the laugh!
P.S. The chinese angels were too busy dealing with emperors constantly waging war on each other, forcing some random monkey to handle that would be like conscripting AK-47 holding bonobos and their RPG-7 holding leader into your guerilla campaign.
What a bunch of trash talk. You can't face the fact that all these characters have been attributed the traits and titles of leaders repeatedly in their history and demand that your mildly sociopathic guy who ran a village is better qualified for being handed the literally divine mandate of the angels right out of nowhere.
You could have just said, that's how it went in your story that only has your characters, but you decided that no other MC in existence could hold any sort of reasonable governmental qualifications. OF COURSE YOU ARE WRONG you said a crazy thing! Dr who and Wonder Woman were supposed to be jokes to point out how easy it was to find even funny sounding counter examples for such a ridiculous absolutist statement, but they genuinely hold up incredibly strongly on actual examination compared to your claims.
Your grasp on the details of fictional characters and real history is slim, your claims are outlandish and needlessly extreme to the point of undermining themselves.
And the Chinese angels were too busy with what? In your chosen time period sitting on their asses watching the beginning of a multiple century long golden age. Byzantium was notoriously unstable? What? The Eastern Roman Empire's peak period started at the fall of the Western one, again, your chosen time period. Most of the Eastern Roman Empire's decline, is, oddly, right at the end, the time at which empires typically do their most rapid declining.
Your standards for even what statecraft is and what a stable government even is are ahistorical and unrealistic.
Maybe you should ask someone who as a profession studies the history of multiple forms of government and statecraft, some sort of historian.
Like Wonder Woman or Dr Who. Both of whom are also historians.
Bro, Doctor Who is a completely different person every time they regenerate. Do the Time Lords have to give them a multi-century onboarding seminar and a rundown of tax codes every time the BBC decides to hire a new actor?
And Wonder Woman spent her entire formative life on a secluded island entirely populated by immortal women. How is she supposed to manage the sociopolitical nuances and deeply ingrained prejudices of 6th-century mortal men? Lock them up in caves to use as breeding stock?
"And the Chinese angels were too busy with what? In your chosen time period sitting on their asses watching the beginning of a multiple century long golden age. Byzantium was notoriously unstable? What? The Eastern Roman Empire's peak period started at the fall of the Western one, again, your chosen time period. Most of the Eastern Roman Empire's decline, is, oddly, right at the end, the time at which empires typically do their most rapid declining."
Tell me you’ve never actually gone into multi-hour-long wiki deep dives without telling me. The 6th century in Byzantium featured the Nika riots, which literally burned half of Constantinople to the ground and killed 30,000 citizens because people were furious over taxes and statecraft. The empire survived on a razor's edge of constant military coups, civil wars, and usurpers routinely blinding, castrating, and murdering rivals to steal the throne. If you think a government that requires systematic mutilation of political rivals to maintain continuity is a "stable, peaceful golden age," your standards for statecraft are terrifying.
My point from the very beginning has been about handling the logistics of realistic aftermath like civil unrest, power vacuums, a shattered economy, and destroyed infrastructure.
Comic and TV authors especially LOVE to completely ignore the boring parts of the latter. They'll blow up half of Manhattan or an alien planet for the third time in a season, and we just have to assume "taxes and the Justice League will handle the repairs."
Warrior-diplomats and wandering time travelers punch a bad guy and fly away to the next adventure. They don't stick around to sit with the busybodies to calculate agricultural output and make sure a village doesn't starve during a winter famine.
My MC is an immortal anchor designed specifically to bypass the bloody, unstable succession cycles that historically plagued empires like Byzantium. But hey, if you genuinely believe a traveling cosmic hobo and an Amazonian princess are the golden standards for dark-age macroeconomic stability, more power to you.
And you rather clearly aren't at all familiar with Dr Who, President of the Time Lords. Lets not get into the rest of his state craft nonsense. Which is extensive.
In almost every incarnation, The Doctor is nearly the antithesis of State Craft - and the title is, if memory serves "Heir of the Sash, Key and Rod of Rassilon, Lord President of the High Council of the Time Lords of Gallifrey." A title he shortened to "Lord President of Gallifrey" when placed on trial (Sixth Doctor, Trial of a Time Lord), and when confronting Davros, creator of the Daleks during his seventh incarnation.
As pointed out above, his "campaign" was proving that he did not murder the previous Lord President. and he ran unopposed. He only ran for the office was because being a candidate was the only way to avoid execution for the crime he was falsely accused of and have a chance of finding the real culprit (a servant of The Master), and nobody else was in a position to run for the office at the time.
If anything. Napoleon very possibly ranks in pretty poorly in the group for his state craft qualifications, after all, famously, everyone regarded him as a bit of a dick. And even Napoleon kinda undermines your "but what about the next generation?" ahem, "conundrum" since Napoleon accidentally created a lot of the foundations of what would become modern western democracy.
That depends on which of the three Napoleons (or four if you count the character from Mission: Impossible, who at least excelled at SPYcraft). One was a brilliant statesman who made the mistake of ruling at the wrong time. One was a great general, mediocre emperor, who made two major tactical errors and became one of history's greatest villains/whipping boys as a result. The other was the very forgettable son in between these two, who managed to get his own son into power using his father's legacy IIRC (been a while since I looked into that stuff so may be a bit off).
He's not controlling. That's the main reason why his crew and wives like him. He lets them speak their mind and do things their way as long as it doesn't derail his plans completely. Otherwise, he reprimands them as needed. Him causing harm to the people he considered bad is only something he actively committed when he was a child at around 11 - 60 Earth years old. After that, he matured a lot and chilled tf out, even though he's still a teenager / young adult by a god's standards.
<SNIP>
Well, first of all, he's only around 80 Earth years old. That "Centuries Old Exhaustion" is more of a vibe than a literal length of time. In the end, it doesn't matter how old a character like that needs to be. I just condense his life so he can be a badass his whole life while still not jarring when he acts like a jackass to get stuff done.
<Snip>
The world is also 11/10 realistic, so "statecraft" means actual real-life handling of selfish and depraved rulers who want to only enrich themselves while starving others of the same opportunities they had to get there in the first place (so no Anos since he just beat his problem into submission).
But he's been around since the 6th Century and we're in the 21st? Or is this going by Chinese dynasties - then it's a few thousand...
An 80 year old child ruler who's been around for 15 or more centuries? Maybe he IS The Doctor or a different renegade Time Lord (The Meddling Monk perhaps? Haven't seen him since the First Doctor sent his TARDIS spiraling back to the dawn of Time)....
Oh, right. The story takes pleace in an alternate universe and I kinda just mishmash all the time periods together to make the best story possible.
The present timeline happens in Edo-ish period Japan, while the flashback occurs when Rome was a few months away from a full blown legionare riots.
My MC was literally got handed down a burning empire and it's just a test to see how good of a leader he really is. Everyone already knew that the empire is going to crumble, so he's not expected to change anything.
I'm still writing down the details, but I got some anecdotes scenes after he got put into power. Hold on, lemme check my flashdrives.
Alright, this is one of the story snippet I made. It's self contained, so don't worry about spoilers:
As they continue their walk underneath the torii, another case comes to his mind, one titled ‘The Silva Cimina Deception.’ It was a case that started when a Legatus Augusti pro praetore named Cassius Varro was intruding on the forest called Silva Cimina in the hopes of turning it into profitable farmland, a decision he made without the knowledge of the then recently anointed imperator.
{Legatus Augusti Pro Praetore
Roma’s Imperial Governor Who Rules on Behalf of Galan}
{Silva Cimina | A Feared Mist-shrouded Forest in Northern Etruria}
{Etruria | A Rugged Region North of Roma}
Cassius decided to start the campaign based on the Imperium’s need for a new source of food due to the new influx of slaves who became citizens, as well as to ‘tame the savage wilds for the glory of the Imperium.’ He then authorized the construction of a new military road and a series of logging camps directly through the heart of the Silva Cimina.
But the initial incursions were met with small-scale resistances. Minor wosa, such as the di’nyu’nyesa, druaades, and other lesser nature spirits, attempted to intimidate the surveyors and legionarii with minor illusions and natural traps.
{Legionarii | legionaries}
In response, Varro ordered the legionarii to burn groves, demolish shelters, and slaughter any wosa they encountered. Facing certain annihilation, three major, rivalrous wosa decided to work together. They are:
A lisovik who ruled the heart of the forest,
A martiya khvara who ruled the back of the forest, including part of the hills beyond it,
And an equi cornuti luminis who ruled the entrance as a guide to the forest at night.
By combining their zofu, they formed the soul signature of a single, terrifyingly powerful oozosa the soldiers called ‘Custos Divinus Silvae Ciminiae {Divine Guardian of Silva Cimina},’ a colossal entity of wood, horn, and fury that seemed to embody the forest's rage. Despite only being visible to those with a wozu, its presence still manifests to the invading nizo’nyesa as:
Terrifying whispers and screams of the dead that they’ve slaughtered.
The shifting and writhing of the forest floor,
And the random teleporting of spaces that created disorienting, impassable mazes.
And that’s not to mention the countless wo’nyesa that utilized their power to defend the forest on all fronts. The legionarii, plagued by severe losses, began to believe that they were facing a vengeful, primordial Deus. And over a few days, the number of desertions rises until the whole operation grinds to a halt.
However, Legatus Varro, humiliated and furious, refused to report a defeat at the hands of some ‘forest spirits’ and the ‘Ciminian Sylvestris.’ He instead fabricated reports to the Senatus, claiming that the powerful, hostile oozosa had declared war on the Imperium, presenting a massive, existential threat.
Using this manufactured crisis, he demanded more legionarii and the authority to enact a full-scale magical purge of the Silva Cimina, an act that would have led to a catastrophic war. It was a plan that would’ve been immediately acted upon by most Imperatores, but not Galan, for he decided to ascertain the true nature of the threat instead of agreeing to slaughter what he saw to be innocent people.
With the plan of posing as a negotiator assigned to Varro's command, he asked his family to fly him to the ‘haunted’ forest and began his investigation, quickly deducing that the inhabitant’s efforts were defensive, not offensive. Moreover, he concluded that the soul signature, while immense, lacked the singular, focused will of an oozosa and the chaotic soul mixture of a foang {Amalgamate}.
He then tracked the magical emanations to their three distinct sources and confronted each of them under the guidance and trust of the forest’s inhabitants. And rather than attacking, he offered them a pact, backed by his divine authority. In return, they would allow the base of the martiya khvara’s hills to be used for agriculture, providing the Imperium with much needed tritikum spelta and hordeum vulgare, but only under the strict supervision of the forest's own guardians.
{Tritikum Spelta | Triticum Spelta | Spelt | Ancient Wheat}
{Hordeum vulgare | Barley}
Once Galan was flown back to Roma, he strode into the Curia Hostilia, much to the confusion of those inside. And as he approached, the Senatus saw not the head of a monster but a large scroll with a nicely tied purple ribbon in his right hand and a laurel branch in his left. Their eyes dart amongst one another, mouths shut as they don’t dare say a word as he kneeled ahead of the sella curulis and laid the branch upon it.
{Curia Hostilia | The Forum’s Oldest Senatus Building}
{Sella Curulis | High-magistrate Reserved Chair | Curule Chair}
With everything ready, he summoned Varro while standing and presented the evidence of the Legatus’ fabricated reports, illegal land grab, and unjustifiable slaughter of the forest dwellers. Then, under the shock of the Senatus, the Di, and the legionarii’s own centuriones, he sentenced Cassius and two of his tribuni to death by decapitation, a punishment he delivered publicly within the Forum Romanum with the use of Tiberius’ divine axe.
{Centuriones | Mid to High Ranking Officers | Centurions}
The immediate execution of a high-ranking Legatus sent shockwaves throughout the Imperium. But with Galan's testimony, backed by the now-loyal centuriones, the Senatus was forced to accept the truth. And as a final act of generosity, Galan had the Silva Cimina officially decreed a legally protected sanctuary, forever off-limits to military and commercial exploitation, with its borders protected by those who would later form the Eereenophulakes. In return, the inhabitants swore an oath of non-aggression, their ‘Custos Divinus’ never to be seen again.
My MC is an immortal anchor designed specifically to bypass the bloody, unstable succession cycles that historically plagued empires like Byzantium. But hey, if you genuinely believe a traveling cosmic hobo and an Amazonian princess are the golden standards for dark-age macroeconomic stability, more power to you.
How is that character specifically designed to be good government?
By having the decidedly poor for leadership roles character traits described by the OP on this thread?! Then not having them again when denial of that is convenient?
By having "a bit" of an absolutist black and white morality, not a thing you can by definition have a bit of. And also not a thing that is good in a leader.
By being up to a whopping 80 years old? A thing a lot of regular human leaders achieve and is usually not the best qualification for leadership?
By murdering people they arbitrarily decide are bad for up to 60 years of their life and just sort of calling it a reckless youthful teenage phase?
By having wives that love him because... he only reprimands them when he feels they are defying his will? (Great guy, cool leader, they love him long time)
By not understanding the very small difference between a slave and a serf?
By actively making a ruthless and vile argument against social support for non-productive members of society? (an odd argument for an 80 year old).
By not even understanding how work ethic and social support networks in villages and other pre-capitalist, pre-protestant cultures even function?
By sounding suspiciously like a fascistic strong man ideal?
By lacking the leadership and imagination to aim for anything better than a marginally better leader of a type and era amongst the worst in human history? Couldn't have had the ambition and intellect to aim for at least an early enlightenment? The best they have going is the reformation of the glory days of the kind of nasty Western Roman Empire?
Are Roman Salutes involved in all this? I'm strongly feeling a vibe with this character.
I would STILL pick K9, 1960s TV Batman and Papa Smurf (who no smurf would dare smurf a smurf against) ahead of this guy to run my Italian village of oddly chronically lazy ex-slaves and aspiring battered wife syndrome women.
They might even manage to do it without resorting to exile and execution of the elderly and infirm as their plan for community retirement and social safety nets.
You seem to be using the modern mis-use of the term Fascist - the concept (until Mussolini got hold of it, merged it with authoritarian autocrat, and then kind of reversed a quarter of its core concepts) was created by European Industrialists as something to oppose the popularity of European Socialism. In a very simplistic nutshell: under socialism, "the people" control all the businesses (through government officials who, at least in theory, act in their interest). while under fascism, the businesses control the government by being one and the same.
The Italian Fascist Party moved a bit away from this "ideal" to form their alliance with the German National Democratic Socialist Party (which also moved a bit away from its roots as a splinter group of the German Worker's Party) and both became unique monstrosities who could work together to the detriment of the rest of the world.
By lacking the leadership and imagination to aim for anything better than a marginally better leader of a type and era amongst the worst in human history? Couldn't have had the ambition and intellect to aim for at least an early enlightenment? The best they have going is the reformation of the glory days of the kind of nasty Western Roman Empire?
To be fair, they didn't have many (successful) experiments with any other form of government to use for a reference at the time, so stuck with Empires and the like for a few more centuries...
"How is that character specifically designed to be good government?"
That's the best part: He's not. He grew into the role because his family and the Roman gods saw his efforts with his village of random stragglers and some random, low-ranking angels from his family and they decided to take a chance on him. He learned statecraft as he grew into the role, with his first decision being cleaning out the house of dirt (Read: Killing senators that wants slavery to go on).
He then make deals with the forest people for land in exchange for protection guaranteed food, which he can guarantee the harvest of thanks to him using machinery of the dwarves to make mass harvesting and planting easier, on top of developing herbicide and better storage silos to deter pests, while at the same time repaving the deteriorated roads that's been abandoned for years due to the terrible economy he was left with.
This allows him to use their lands to make A LOT of food WAY easier, since he no longer relies on hard labor slowing everything down, while also having insane variety of lands to grow whatever agricultural wonders he wants for both consumption and trade (rare magical ingredients are expensive af, btw, so this is a nice chump of change).
Oh, and he also cleaned up the legionaries so that only those loyal to the state instead of the coins stays alive. This gave him buffer to prevent riots of the barbarians the idiots before him hire by getting rid of them while he uses their manpower to keep vultures at bay (read: competing empires).
"By having the decidedly poor for leadership roles character traits described by the OP on this thread?! Then not having them again when denial of that is convenient?"
Alright, that's my bad. I was just adding nonsense that exaggerated my MC's traits, bro. I mean, it's not WRONG wrong, y'know. Like, I mean, it was just a dumb hyperbole. I didn't expect someone to actually take it super seriously and make up the rest of his character in their mind out of dumb forum tags.
"By having "a bit" of an absolutist black and white morality, not a thing you can by definition have a bit of. And also not a thing that is good in a leader."
Yeah, see, I was doing a funny, bro. Idk, it's funny to me. And yeah, in like, 99.99999% of cases that's a horrible trait to have. But I used that to describe my MC's absolutely ruthless nature as the Butcher of Rome to those he consider bad, and the Savior of Rome to those he consider good. So... Yeah... IT IS that black and white. From my PoV at least. Idk about you.
"By being up to a whopping 80 years old? A thing a lot of regular human leaders achieve and is usually not the best qualification for leadership?"
Oh my god, bro. Think of society AFTER the death of a chosen mortal that lead people to prosperity. What would happen after they're gone? That everything would just run fine as usual? No usurping of the throne? No backstabbing of royal siblings? No splitting of territories due to the local lords having issues with the next ruler? GoT taught us of what happens in power vacuums and succession battles, bro.
"By murdering people they arbitrarily decide are bad for up to 60 years of their life and just sort of calling it a reckless youthful teenage phase?"
As I said, for the standard of a god, yeah. Damn it, man. How many gods do you know of that are sane and perfect beings in the Roman and Greek pantheon? Remember that those guys were OLDER than my MC when they did all their crazy shenanigans. Killing some random bad guys was seen as no big deal to his family and other god's family as a whole (though individual opinions still differ, of course).
"By having wives that love him because... he only reprimands them when he feels they are defying his will? (Great guy, cool leader, they love him long time)"
He actually just let his wives do their thing, really. He never reprimands them, as in, he never hit or yell at them. Never needed to since he can read minds so he knows the secret dialogue choices that leads to the best outcome at any given moment. His wives also serve as the ruler of both his households and his budget.
Btw, we're not talking some shonen BS harem hentai here. I'm talking powerful women with their own purpose in life that's tangential to what the MC is doing at all times. Like, his wife Cang Cu that handles his village in his absence, and Meredith that is an owner of her own dwarven empire and the CEO of a flying ship hangar and maintenance shop.
"By not understanding the very small difference between a slave and a serf?"
They're just his village people bro, wtf. If they don't wanna work, they can laze off elsewhere. Like, what makes you think staying in a god's village is a human right? You gotta EARN that privilege, man. I don't see why you're so hung up in defending slackers in what was a small village when he was young.
It does get big enough later that some slackers are okay to have I guess. So are you satisfied now? He stopped having to kick people out since the ones that wants them to stay, like relatives and whatnot worked harder to compensate. And things goes by just fine like that, so Galan just chill out about it, really. I mean, he got serial rapists and murderers to deal with after all.
"By actively making a ruthless and vile argument against social support for non-productive members of society? (an odd argument for an 80 year old)."
LMAO, ironically enough, he 100% support social benefits to his people. Read these if you don't believe me:
He looks through the iron bars and doors, his hawong showing him the torment of each inhabitant. The first one is a young, skinny man curled up in the corner, muttering to himself as his limbs tremble uncontrollably. His mind is shattered by the revelation that his fiancee’s uncle died due to his involvement in a desperate attempt to secure their future.
Digging deeper, Galan’s hawong discovers that the man is deeply in love but is in poverty, constantly pressured by his fiancee’s parents to provide a substantial betrothal gift. Seeing no other way, he agrees to help a small gang of dockworkers steal a single, valuable crate of imported Romani silk, a simple victimless crime against a wealthy merchant.
But during the late-night theft, a figure emerged from the shadows. He’s the new night watchman, a kind, older man. Noticing the theft, he unsheathed his wakizashi, only to be knocked out in one hit by a heavy wooden club, the back of his head bleeding profusely. Realizing that they’ve gone too far, the thieves fled, leaving the old man to die alone on the cold planks of the warehouse floor.
They each had an alibi, but that didn’t protect them from the confession of one of their crew members. For the very next day, the body was identified, and the wedding had to be canceled. The skinny man’s fiancee was inconsolable, crying for days on end. Wrecked by guilt, the skinny man turned himself in a week later, confessing his part in the crime.
His fiancee, devastated by the betrayals of her lover and the death of her uncle, refused to see anyone, while the rest of their family are now socially ruined beyond reconciliation. And now, the skinny man is rotting in the cell as he mutters her name, having lost not just his freedom but also the trust of everyone in his life.
Galan: “(Goes to show just how quickly you can either get rich or ruin your life. I would’ve given him a zero percent interest loan if I were in charge… Guess investing in your own people isn’t on the agenda.)”
Masahiko: “Oda-Sama, if I may ask, may I inquire as to why you are so generous?“
Odagawa: shrugs “It’s more of a ‘why not?’ sort of thing.“ places the atsukan on the table “As a ruler, it’s my duty to keep everyone under me happy, be they my own people or those from other lands.”
slight pause “Especially considering the fact that Roma is a cultural hub for Astanka. Can’t be too generous for one culture but not the others, right? That would cause trouble in international negotiation.“
Masahiko: “It seems your concept of 'duty' as a ruler extends far beyond what most here in Nihon might expect from their daimyoo, Oda-Sama. Was this always your philosophy, or was it one forged through experience?“
Odagawa: looks down “It took a while for me to realize it, as others at the meeting table are as powerful as they are greedy. They’ll generally only use the traded resources on themselves and the people that put them into power, leaving nothing but crumbs for the people below them.“ drinks
Masahiko: while deep in thought “I suppose that problem extends to more than just Nihon.“
Odagawa: “Yeah, it does. Which is why I decided to visit their land myself to improve the lives of their people. Either by setting scheduled trades or investing in them directly.“ drinks
Masahiko: “And I assume your casual acts of generosity are another form of that?“
Odagawa: nods “Un. Just think about it, the attendant I just gave the tips to might do his job with a lighter heart, treating the next guest better, increasing the venue’s reputation once he leaves and tells his friend about the experience he had.“ drinks
“If everyone supports one another and we expand that idea to a whole nation, then eventually, the business owners will prosper, improving the lives of others by:
Expanding their businesses and hiring more people,
Increasing the salary and benefits of the employees,
Buying better tools and machinery to improve productivity,
Or simply allowing the business owners to spend more on other people’s businesses.
The small act of simple goodwill would eventually spill over onto the lives of the poor, mostly bypassing the need for the rich and powerful to part with their kogan.“ drinks the last drops
“But of course, that assumes that nothing goes wrong or that no one would exploit this cycle. Which is why I’m so harsh on those that did try to overstep their boundaries and created financial safety nets for those that needed it.“
He stares at the audience on the second and third floors, noticing the still-happy Kazue and Sho’s children mimicking the dancers.
“At least, that’s the simple explanation. My children and advisory committee handle most of the day-to-day operations. I only step in if something goes wrong and have to make up new laws on the spot.“
"By not even understanding how work ethic and social support networks in villages and other pre-capitalist, pre-protestant cultures even function?"
pre-protestant cultures? Bro, how many wtf do you want me to say? It's an epic fantasy world, man. The village just need a strong leader, strong people, and a disgusting amount of nepo child benefit from his divine family to ensure the village doesn't collapse due to low population or late food shipment. It did became fully sufficient 20 Earth years after he became the emperor though, him saving Rome rallied a lot of people into his village and help boost everything about it.
"By sounding suspiciously like a fascistic strong man ideal?"
Ok, you got me, this is 100% true, no sarcasm. But.. Y'know... That's the point. I mean, his family wanted him to be the next savior cause Jesus wasn't nearly as successful as Yahweh wanted it to be in this world since other gods straight up exists and defend their borders by nuking barbarians slavers and big time proselytizers that wants to take over the place and convert anyone there into any religion. So, yeah, progress has been slow for Christianity during the flashback timeline. Thus, they needed a plan B. And that was Galan.
"By lacking the leadership and imagination to aim for anything better than a marginally better leader of a type and era amongst the worst in human history?"
Um, what? Bro, he's a god. wdym marginally better? He got like triple the IQ of your average forum goers. The roman forums, I mean, not the people here. I know you guys are very smart people. So the era doesn't matter really. Once the knowledge of statecraft and being a good person with ruthless efficiency when dealing with bad guys were invented, anyone can replicate what Galan did. I mean, is it really so hard to think that jailing or killing bad guys reduce crime? Do I need to bring up a study on this?
"Couldn't have had the ambition and intellect to aim for at least an early enlightenment? The best they have going is the reformation of the glory days of the kind of nasty Western Roman Empire?"
Oh, that... Was... What he did. Uh... Yo, idk how to respond to this, honestly. He brought the idea of removing bad guys from society and elevate the good guys that are struggling and Rome got saved. It's a gross simplification, I know. But that's the jist of it.
"Are Roman Salutes involved in all this? I'm strongly feeling a vibe with this character."
No? That's like asking: "Uh, maen. Does your vikings got horns on them helmets when fighting?" Like, wtf. No. 'course not. Damn.
"I would STILL pick K9, 1960s TV Batman and Papa Smurf (who no smurf would dare smurf a smurf against) ahead of this guy to run my Italian village of oddly chronically lazy ex-slaves and aspiring battered wife syndrome women.
They might even manage to do it without resorting to exile and execution of the elderly and infirm as their plan for community retirement and social safety nets."
In a cartoon ass world where no one got raped, bled out as a sacrifice, and killed horrifically from false accusation, sure. But I'd take my chance with Galan than a billionaire jackass that refuse to put a bullet into the skull of a freaking serial killer.
