A Poison Brawler

RootBeerBert

Was definitely popular growing up
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I’ve been making some character changes in my story and have turned the story’s “original protagonist” (now a side character), a poison swordswoman into a brawler since I already two weapon users in my main cast. I have some ideas on how she’d fight but nothing concrete, so I’d like some suggestions please.
 

HelloHound

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maybe her enchanted sword was broken to bits after a job turned bad/betrayal maybe? and she fashioned the still-enchanted bits of sword into knuckle dusters.
If she's a bigger gal then have her throw her weight around, a lot of stabbing moves and if she's small and wiry use her like a venomous pinball, rocketing off of walls and people with small slices that leave deadly results. Lots of ways for people to brawl based off their personalities, upbringings, and bodies; maybe watch different unarmed fighting competitions (or street fights) to get an idea on how your gal moves
 

Representing_Tromba

Sleep deprived mess of an author begging for feedb
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Give them rabies so that when they punch someone it drops some of their rabid blood into their wounds, also giving them rabies.
 

Rhaps

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Dunno if you should go for my route, my MC uses a variety of weapons aside from her fists. Currently she has a sniper rifle, a lance, and a magnum with holy attribute.

Planning to give her a pocket nuke, an explosive shield, a giant ass sword, Valstrax wings, and a knife.
 

Rhaps

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If ypu want to go the brawler route, try looking up some martial arts. If you want the MC to be brutal, try Muay Thai or Krav Maga, mixing poison with martial arts made for killing sounds cool and extra brutal.
 

NotaNuffian

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Or you know, become the Limestone/ Pepper Spray/ Chili Powder Martial God.

 

LilRora

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The obvious thing is injecting poison with each hit, you can make it momentary (like local aneasthetics, kind of; they work where they are injected for a short while and don't really spread much further because they are not strong enough - in your case it would be numbness, blisters, necrotic poisons) or accumulating, so the more she hits, the more pronounced the poisoning will be - those would be used if she is weaker than the enemy and fights a battle of attrition.

If we're talking about posions, another pretty obvious connection is with assassination. And granted a brawler won't be doing assassination, but she could use a lot of additional weapons typical for assassins like knuckle guards covered in poison or poison needles, and consumables like poison flasks and bombs.

And the third thing, the difference between poison and medicine is the dosage. Or, in other words, make her use drugs to boost her fighting abilities, probably at the cost of something, like risk assessment or a little bit of reason.
 

TheEldritchGod

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so I’d like some suggestions please.
You asked for it...

Or How to get your DM to ban a core rulebook base class.



Hi Ho, Keeds!



The Eldritch God here, you know, the guy who writes all those crazy handbooks for d20 3.0/3.5. Well, today I’m here to talk about Monks. Out of the core rulebook, monks suck. If your DM is not allowing you to use supplemental rulebooks or dragon magazine, the class is practically unplayable. If your DM allows all official rules, well… just look at the title of this post and you’ll get the idea.



You see, Theoretical Optimization is an art form. It requires you to mold and shape the rules to reach true TO. TO doesn’t work well in areas that are well-defined. The Monk is not well defined. He is a bundle of exceptions that if properly applied allows you to basically take the Wealth By Level guidelines and bitch slap them into submission. It allows you to take equipment and spells and use them in ways never intended and make the DM look at you cross-eyed.



BEFORE YOU TRY ANY OF THIS CRAP

Talk to your DM.



1. Warn him you are planning on playing an optimized monk. When he gets done laughing, tell him, “I’m serious.” He will wipe a tear away from the corner of his eye and then, giggling, put a hand on your shoulder and tell you, “I think I can handle it.” Take a deep breath and tell him, “Don’t say I didn’t warn you.”





2. Ask him how he views a monk’s unarmed attack. This is important as the viewpoint of your DM on the origin of attacks from a body location perspective is paramount to how you build your monk. If your DM sees it one way, you need to optimize in one direction. If he sees it another, you have other options. One is more broken than the other. Let him choose:



2a) Monks get 9 attack locations (Head, L. Hand, R Hand, Left Elbow, Right Elbow, Left Knee, Right knee, Left foot, right foot.) There is some conjecture as to the reach of the head location. If you are using the only rules that define the head location, your forehead has a reach of 0 feet, which means it is only of use when you are grappling someone. Why is this important? Each location can be enchanted separately.



2b) Some DMs subscribe to the “whole body” approach. I do not think that RAW supports this, but there is some documentation to support this viewpoint. If you subscribe to this viewpoint, The monk’s “whole body” is a weapon. If his whole body is a weapon, then you cannot enchant specific parts separately from other parts. You might think that this is a nerf of the monk’s abilities, but it isn’t. In fact, of the two viewpoints, this is much more broken. If you have a choice, say, your DM says, “Pick one.” You should ALWAYS choose this option. You will see later.





3) Ask him how many weapons one can have ready. Now, official, by the rules, you can have two weapons ready. A primary and a secondary. You can have an unlimited number of natural attacks. You can attack with the same weapon multiple times, but you can’t attack with more than two weapons. This would imply that you have at maximum two weapons at the ready at any time. Even if you don’t attack with it, you are limited to two weapons.



Now, some DMs let you have an unlimited number of weapons at the ready. Boot blades, elbow blades, knee blades, horned helmet, gauntlets, shields, hand-held weapons, armor spikes, AND armor razors can all be worn by the same person. Many DMs make the mistake of allowing all to be at the ready, and therefore, any enchantment on any given weapon is always on. The actual RAW of the matter is up in the air. But this doesn’t apply to you.



As a monk, you have attacks that are Natural Weapons. That means all nine locations are at the ready no matter what the DM thinks. You can mix and match between all nine locations if you desire. Other classes cannot do that. This is an exploitable loophole. If your DM states that you can have only two locations “at the ready” you need to adjust your build accordingly. It actually isn’t that much of a draw back, but you just need to plan for it.





4a) Is he allowing Dragon Magazine? Specifically #359, Body Alteration. Why? Because you want caps on your knuckles. They give your hands the same properties as the material you select. You want it to be masterwork, so the base cost is 610 gp plus double the cost of the material. The weight is 1 pound. The material doesn’t have to be the same for each hand. The magazine suggests silver or cold Iron. There is no reason you cannot use it on all nine combat locations. I suggest the following (prices for the material already doubled):

Cold Iron - 40 gp. Might as well get a cold iron elbow, just in case.

Deep Crystal - There are ways to get power points. You can spend 2 pp to increase the damage of deep crystal weapons by 2d6. It holds a charge for 1 minute. Cost 2,000 gp

Gold - Increases the damage by one size class. Unfortunately, the cost is based on damage, so you have to pay for the highest one 14,000 gp. Also, you will need an exotic weapon proficiency, or to enchant it with aptitude or you will have negatives to hit with your heavy hand.

Hizagkuur - Cost 3,000 gp. +1 electrical damage and +1 fire damage on every hit. Can’t beat that with a stick.

Katori Resin - For the x4 critical. There is no price, so you’d need to beat up a katori to make it.

Pandemonic Silver - This one takes some work. You need to take that feat, Versatile strike, that lets your unarmed strike be bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing. If you do, spend the 18,000 gp, your hand can now “unsheath” as a free action (considering that switching from bludgeoning to slashing and back again is a free action). As a DM, I would not allow you to use pandemoic silver’s fear property more then once a combat, but by raw, you can use this every round, at the very least. Why would you care? Well, Look at the section later on titled “It’s Raining Monks” and you’ll see why Pandemonic silver is evil in the hands (no pun intended) of a monk.

Riverine - This is just broken, but by the rules it’s RAW. The weight is one pound. Therefore Riverine feet cost 4,000 gp/each. If you have Riverine feet, your feet cannot be damaged by anything just like a wall of force. Therefore, if you are quick, you can run across lava or what not. Damned if I know how to even adjudicate that, but… ask your DM and watch him twitch.

Solanian true Steel - If you are going for a critical build, this gives you +1 to confirm criticals.

Starmetal - You will get Adamantine strike, sooner or later, but for 10,000 gp, this gives you a +1d6 against Extraplanar creatures. Keep it in mind if you got money to blow, or if you are switching out ki strike (adamantine) for something else.



BUT WAIT! That’s not all!

Why just have metal implanted into your body when you can have them custom made? You need to have those with templates!



Gloryborn: Extra 1,200 gp, but a +1 on a charge. As a monk, you should charge as much as possible.

Hellforged: An expensive 3,000 gp, but you get an extra point of damage for flanking.

Soulforged: 1,600 gp to do +2 damage to anyone who charges you.

Pitspawned: For 2,000 gp, you get +2 to confirm criticals.



Should you get all of these? Don’t know what your build is, but you need to keep them in mind because different builds have different perks.



4b) Under the rules, Clothing is Armor 0. If he isn’t allowing that, you need to know. If he is allowing monks to use AC 0 armor, then there is also implantable armor in the same dragon magazine. Now, unlike the metal knuckles, it specifically states you cannot use other armor with this. It does NOT state it takes up the body slot, so you can still wear magic robes and whatnot, UNLESS you enchant it. Since the point of getting this is to enchant it, you lose out on magical items for the body slot. Keep that in mind for your build.



It states the cost of the armor is 300 gp x the AC of the armor. So, AC: 0 is 300 gp x 0. +300 gp for masterwork, AC 0 masterwork implantable armor is 300 gp and does not interfere with a monk’s ability to perform monk things. Now, you can also add materials to your AC 0 armor, as well as templates at base cost for such things, as well as Armor Spikes. I’m on the fence about the spikes. I think they look cool and have many options. Your call. Materials are:

Adamantine - 5,000 gp for DR 1/-

Ferroplasm - 1,500 gp gives you a free non-magical +1 EB, but you have to be psionic to use it. Why does this matter? Then you don’t have to put another +1 into your armor. You can go straight to Armor Special Abilities. For example, a +1 EB and +1 ASA normally costs 4,000 gp. A Ferroplasm Subdermal armor with +1 ASA is only 2,500 gp. See? Cost savings. Alas, if you add any EBs later they don’t stack with the ferroplasm, so only do that if you are never going to up your armor’s EB.

Livewood - Run this one by your DM. Implant livewood under your skin. You now qualify for Tree Stride wherever you are. Weird and unique combo? Yes. But might be of use to someone out there. Have a dryad live in your Subdermal armor. What’s that good for? Damned if I know.

Sentira - Emotional Armor. Not a big fan, but vengeful might be cool.

Suslian Chainweave - Very expensive at 28,000 gp, but it’s a DR 3/slashing for light armor. Keep it in mind, if you got money to blow.

Ysgardian heartwire - 1,500 gp to have your AC increased by +2 vrs confirming criticals. Normally I would never bother getting it, except that it’s Heartwire, and in this case it literally is wire around your heart.



Again, Template wise:

Gloryborn: 150 gp for +1 to AC while charging.

Pitspawned: 600 gp Everytime someone strikes you in melee, it does 1 point of unblockable, immune to DR damage to them. Now then, if you wish, for 2,000 gp you could have your Subdermal armor built out of Hizagkuur (gives you a minor 2 points of cold resistance). Since your armor is damaging your targets, it’s acting as a weapon. As a weapon it does 1 point electrical and 1 point fire.





5) IT’S RAINING MONKS!



So, your DM has ruled that a monk’s whole body is a weapon. Great! Buy yourself a necklace of natural weaponry. Take throwing. Get ranged. Now you can throw yourself up to 100 feet as an attack. Oh, don’t worry. You don’t plan on throwing yourself at your enemies. You might miss. No no no. The rules state to hit a specific square is AC 5. You are -2 to hit for every range increment, and your range increment is 20. You will rarely be throwing yourself more then 50 feet to begin with, until you get up to really high levels. So your target number is usually going to be around 11.



Where are you aiming? Above your target, as far as you can safely fall. You see, the slow fall rules are very specific, they say YOU don’t take any damage. They don’t say anything about what you hit. Getting hit with falling objects has nothing to do with how fast it’s falling, only how heavy and how far. Besides, slow fall isn’t like feather fall. You don’t fall 60 feet a round. You fall 150 feet the first round, 300 on the second, etc etc… just like normal falling.



Now wait, you need a wall to fall next to!



No, you need something sturdy. A wall will do, but so will a statue, a strong tree, a really tall giant, an immovable rod, or even the ceiling. You only need to be in contact with it at some point during that fall that round. Nothing in the description of slow fall says it needs to be continuous. You could fall 60 feet and if the wall is only the last 5 feet, that’s fine. If you touch the ceiling at the start of your fall, and your fall is in this round, then that’s fine too. And I would point out it says Arm’s Reach. So if you get your reach up to 40 feet, that gives you a lot more room to maneuver where you are falling. Is this RAI? Hell no. RAW? You betcha.



Why do you want to fall?



Well, the “hit by falling objects rules” are fairly clear. Your average adventurer is about 200 lbs. He does 1d6 points of damage for every 10 feet he falls and hits someone, up to 20d6 damage. There is no saving throw. There is no to hit. There is no dodge, or maneuver, or side step. You fall as a free action, instantly. Wham. You take no damage, your target takes 1d6 for every 5 feet. Or if you hit yourself with enlarge, your weight is now x4, so you do 4d6 damage for the first 10 feet, +1d6 for every 10 feet after that.



You are a monk special weapon. You can throw yourself as many times in a round as your flurry of blows.



Let’s have some fun. 12th level monk. Slow fall 60 feet. 4 attacks, he can throw himself 4 times. He’s enlarged so 9d6 if he can hit AC 11 to target the right square above his enemies heads. He falls as a free action. Wham. Throws himself back up. Wham. Repeat. Wham. Repeat. Wham.



Now out in a wide open area, this won’t work so much. Or it needs some planning, because an immovable rod is a move action to activate. This isn’t a trick you’ll be doing every day, but walking down the street with buildings on either side, oh yeah. And how does the target defend themselves? There is an ASA called impact that halves the damage, but other than that, damned if I know.



He can’t move on your turn. Falling objects hit the target without a to hit roll. You just need to make sure the falling object hits the right square. Hence why I think there is a to hti roll to “hit” the right square to fall from. But that’s conjecture. By RAW, you just throw yourself into the air and you can land in any square you want. No roll. No way to resist, nothing.



Now, if your DM is freaking out about this, I have some sort of rule-based suggestion. Now, you have to make a tumbling roll to avoid someone when moving through this square. This is a free action. So I propose, unless the target is flat footed, he gets a tumbling roll vrs your tumbling roll to avoid getting hit by you. That seems fair and is much less likely to get you beaten to death by your DM with a 2nd Edition DMG (those things had some heft to them).



AND that brings us back to pandemic silver. Since your hand can change between bludgeoning, slashing and back again as a free action, you can draw as a free action. So what’s the speed of the air while you are falling? Damned if I know, but it would increase the save DC of the fear effect of “unsheathing” a pandemic silver weapon if you do it while dropping out of the sky. Is this one pushing it? Oh yeah. But this is a list of ways to get the DM to want to ban monks, so there you go.

(if this isn’t convincing your DM to consider every body part a separate weapon, I don’t know what will.)


6) If your DM views the whole monk body as a one weapon, then your body is a weapon. Therefore a valid target for the Hardening spell. Find a 20th level caster. Get this cast on you, because it’s permanent. You now have hardness 10.

Hardness is weird. You subtract hardness from all attacks. Also Double hardness against Fire and Electrical attacks. Multiply it by four for sonic attacks. Multiply it by 2 for ranged attacks. Yeah, you read that right. 10 points of hardness on a monk is 20 points of DR against ranged objects.

Since the spell hardening is Permanent, this is most likely the most broken spell ever for a monk. However, it only interacts this way for a monk. If someone else takes Improved Unarmed Strike, it only gives you use of your fists. Only under the entry of the class feature of monk does it give any inclination that the whole body is a weapon.


7) The WSA Flying is only +1 bonus. Put in a Necklace of natural weapons, if your whole body is a weapon, then you now have the ability to fly 30 feet AS AN ANIMATED OBJECT. In other words, your own body gets to act without you, being about as smart as a skeleton. You have to give it voice commands, but you can order your body to fly 30 feet, then attack someone (at BAB +0), then you can take your full round action. You can even give it a standing order like: If I am ever killed, get away and go back to this church. Your body might not make it, but it will certainly try.

I once worked out that to completely destroy a human body via hit points, you need to inflict somewhere around 300 points of damage. That seems kind of high. I’d put it more around 50, which is the amount to instantly kill someone. That’s just me, however. So if your body is still acting after you are dead, you are beyond raise dead if you take an additional 50 points of damage, or something. There are no rules on this. Again, talk to your DM.


8) Now that we have your base fist, You can put enchantments on that. Your necklace of natural attacks adds WSAs to that, so make sure whatever you select for the two can stack. You can get bracers of striking, but they are expensive. Still, they stack WSAs on your fists. Also, you can get battle gauntlets or ward cestus for your hands. I recommend battle gauntlets. Why?

Because battle gauntlets don’t do anything. They do the exact same damage as your base unarmed attack. So, we can make the battle gauntlets out of some other material, enchant them with WSAs, and everything will stack. Please keep in mind your hands at 16th level are like adamantine. Also, battle gauntlets are one-handed, so you can two hand wield them when fighting for extra x1.5 strength damage. Still, Ward Cestus is a light weapon and has some perks as well. Try this:

So get gold knuckles. Then you get Gold Ward Cestus. Now your hands are two size classes bigger then normal MMm... OVERSIZE DAMAGE. Hey, they don’t stack! Same Source! Okay, one is gold and one is platinum. Same effect. But But But… Hey! This is RAW, baby. Optimization at it’s finest! You really can’t do this with anyone else and get away with it effectively. Plus we are talking two feats (One for your hand, one for the gold battle gauntlets) just to pull this off, or extra enchantment. This all isn’t cheap. It’s going to cost you. So the knee jerk response to say “no”, is wrong because that’s what happens with monks.

So you can get 4 different sourced of WSAs on the same attack. Some fun combos are: Taking everything that adds energy damage (I figured out how to get 15d6+1 fire or electrical damage) or a whole slew of other interesting WSAs. I happen to have a handbook about that. It’s in my sig file. Go take a look. It’s fairly cheap to get say +15 bonuses on your fists, as compared to the cost for anyone else to get a +15 weapon.

That’s the point of this post. People say monk’s suck, but when you actually do the things that monks should be allowed to do, most people reflexively shout “NO!”. This isn’t power gaming. This is using what the class has to its maximum potential.


I am not a munchkin


I would even go so far as to say most of these suggestions are balanced and in fact, underpowered. You have to work hard and dig deep to make a monk work, but when you do, well… I don’t know of any class where a viable battle tactic is to try and plummet out of the sky before I try and beat the crap out of them. I know of no class where you can get three different types of “metal” on the same “weapon”, except a monk. But the cost to pull this off is actually rather expensive. It’s new. It’s interesting. It’s novel. But it requires an open mind.



I’m not saying monks are the best class ever. What I’m saying is, monk’s suck because people think they suck and can’t get over it. Any attempt to make a viable monk by using the rules is automatically shouted down. Monks are not for noobs. Monks are for people with devious and twisted minds who enjoy taking the rules and twisting them into a pretzel. A monk can be a perfectly viable member of any party, and can, in fact, excel in many situations where traditional combat tactics fail.



They are a “5th” member of the party. A specialist that can be good at his chosen field, if he is allowed to use the 3.0/3.5 material that is RAW.

Oh. I got a whole bunch of other ways to abuse rules if you need ideas.
My poison handbook comes to mind, of course
 
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